A Virtual Fireside Chat Episode with TV Host, Writer & Producer Dave Aizer

 So I often use the Seinfeld quote. Public speaking is people's number one, fear and death is number two, which means at a funeral, you'd rather be in the casket than giving the youth to.

You're listening to a Bio Reset medical podcast with Dr. Cook. If you have questions, we're gonna talk more about your symptoms and issues. You can always reach us at 650 888 7950. Welcome to the show today, and I'm delighted to have you here because I have my new friend Dave Azer, like laser, and, uh, he is a, he is a media coach and so he's coaching me and I've been learning, uh, uh, a whole bunch of, uh, things from him.

And, uh, he's gonna teach me how to become the Howard Stern of podcast. Okay. Setting the goals low. I see. Okay, good. Yeah, exactly. So welcome, welcome to the show. How are you today? I'm great. It's uh, it's really fun being here. I, I love the show. I'm excited to chat with you. Thanks for having me on. Oh, thanks so much.

So, you know, it's been interesting to talk to you about, um, your experiences in media. Tell us a little bit about just where, what your background is so I, so people can, can learn from. Sure. Yeah. I, I fell in love with, with television broadcasting my junior year of high school when we did the morning announcements one day in journalism class.

And, uh, I got to be news anchor that day and they turned on the light and turned on the camera and I said, welcome to the morning announcements. And I was hooked. That was all that it took for me. I went home and I told my parents I know what I wanna do with my life. And I went to college. I studied broadcast journalism.

I ended up really, uh, really fortuitously. I got a job right out of college in Orlando, working for espn. And then from there I landed this incredible dream job of hosting a. National Game Show on Nickelodeon for five years, which was so cool. Uh, then I moved to Los Angeles. I worked for American Idol for a little bit, then I moved to Manhattan.

I had a sports comedy web show out of my apartment, and I worked for the Onion News Network. Then I moved back to South Florida where it all started, and I hosted a morning show on the CW for a decade. And now I'm, I'm doing some freelance TV hosting and I'm also coaching you on, on being the next Howard Stern of podcasts.

That's gonna be amazing. Now, what was that? So take me back to that when you were low, when you were in high school. What was the feeling that you had when the lights came on and, and, uh, you started talking? I was, uh, heavily involved in drama as a kid. I did a lot of plays, a lot of acting, so I always had that bug.

I don't know what it was. I just liked to perform. But I had never done anything like this before. This was the early nineties. And uh, you know, this technology was kind of new. There's people doing televised announcements in school, so I had never really had the camera light on my face and the TV camera on, and the director pointing at me and it was, it just.

I don't know. It was mind blowing and just reading the teleprompter probably very poorly. But doing that and just coming alive and feeling like I was this news anchor, it was so cool. I loved it. I was hooked. And there for me, there was no turning back. And did, did you get nervous at all? Probably. I, I'm sure I did.

I probably was trying to impress a girl or something like noble like that back in the day. Uh, I don't, I don't remember if I got nervous or not, but I can tell you in college, Super nervous. You know, in college as a freshman, I, I, I was doing some of the University of Miami newscast and doing some radio stuff, and I was terrified every day that I was sounding like a buffoon.

Uhhuh, you know, it's interesting since we're gonna, you're gonna teach me how to become the Howard Cerno podcasting and, but which would make me the king of all podcasting actually. So we're setting our goals appropriately, but. It seems to me that Howard is amazing at not worrying about being a, a buffoon because he's so driven.

Do you, do you think about that or that concept? I think that, you know, the great ones like Howard. Have complete ownership of who they are as as a creator. Howard is who he is. Over a lifetime worth of experience. He has struggled. He has failed, he has succeeded, he's failed again. And now he's at the point where he, I mean, look, he knows It's funny because if you listen to Howard, he's totally neurotic.

He goes to his therapist all the time. He's afraid of everything. But yet he is the man when it comes to interviewing celebrities. He's most comfortable in that, you know, on that set, on that sound stage with the microphone. And, and I think he just has like total ownership of who he is. And, and for any great performer, actor, broadcaster, singer, you can have all the insecurities in the world, but when those lights are on you, you just really gotta believe in your heart that you, you know, you, you.

You rock it, you're worthy, you have ownership of it. I mean, it's like you as a physician, right? You're, you're making life reject decisions for people. You can't, you can't vacillate, you just need to totally believe in your decisions. And I think the great ones like Howard, they know what they're doing.

They know they're the best at it, and that's how they ap approach it. Now you, you told me something that just blew my mind yesterday when you told me about imposter syndrome. Yes. Because I think, I think so. It is. Everybody fa faces it, but tell us, tell us what that is. It's this, it's this idea that no matter how credentialed you are, no matter how successful you are to my last talking point that I was making, you know, whether you.

Are the best of what you do or not, or the, or, have more experience than anybody else. And sometimes this idea of, you know, when it's time for you to speak in public, this fear washes over you, that maybe you're, you're an imposter. Maybe you aren't worthy of the spotlight. Maybe your message shouldn't be heard by anybody.

Why have these people paid money to

some of the successful. Hugely, uh, in, in any way you wanna define it creatively, economically, status, all of these things super smart and, and, and, and, and visionary people. But, you know, when they get on stage, it's like they forget all of this. So, mm-hmm. What I, what I coach people is take a few moments before you speak on stage or on your podcast or on tv.

If you have to write it down, write it down. If you have to say it out loud, say it out loud, but just kind of read your resume back to yourself. Remind yourself of, of how, of how great you are and how worthy you are to be telling your story. Yeah, that's it's, it's so good. It's so good. Cuz we, we, you coached me on this yesterday and then I talked to a couple of rock and roll stars and.

And then basically imposter syndrome came up and they were like, they, they had it too, you know? Right. And they're, they're, you know, uh, on stage singing to 30,000 people. And so I just, it just, I loved that because I profoundly felt that feeling when I was a kid. I remember when I had to give up and give a talk.

With the three by five cards in fifth grade, and I remember standing there and sh my hands shaking to kinda get through and I didn't really overcome it until about a two years ago. I was like giving a lecture and I just was started talking. And then I just, I just got up on stage and I, I, I had a bunch of slides that I was gonna go over, and then I just, I, I realized for the first time in my life I was totally comfortable up there.

And so then I just spoke for an hour and I just, I just totally winged it. What do you think it was, what, what do you think changed? I, I got comfortable in my own skin and, and, and then, What happened is, like, if, if I always, my whole life I had been panicked to be in, in public speaking and I loved you. You gotta tell your little story about the Jerry Seinfeld set up.

But all my life I had been panicked to be in that public. But, but yet, if I sat down with you in a, in, in a, in my office. I could just talk to you and tell you everything. And so then what happened is this, I feel like I channeled the same feeling that I had being in a clinic one-on-one to being on the stage.

And all of a sudden I just started to speak for a minute, and then I felt it actually organically happened. Like, and I felt like, oh, I'm in clinic now. And so then I just started acting like I normally do in clinic and then people are like, that was by far the best that you've ever done. So it was kinda, it was interesting, and that's one of the things that you and I were talking about was that when you become a really good public speaker, all you do is focus on the moment, on the storytelling.

Just living in that moment, the really good ones, like you're just talking about, are not thinking about. Did I prepare enough? What if the crowd doesn't like me? Is my shirt okay? What am I doing with my hands? None of that stuff. You're just telling a story. Mm-hmm. And the second part of that is, is the idea that you and I have discussed is a whole progress, not perfection idea.

I think a, a big. A big moment for people when they go from, okay, public speakers to really good public speakers or maybe even great is when they can, when they can get rid of the idea that they are chasing perfection. When you can set foot on that stage or that podcast, and you're okay with the fact that you're not gonna give a perfect performance, and by the way, who really cares if you have written down 10 questions to ask me today?

Okay? And two of them you forgot to ask or you ran out of time. You could either beat yourself up about it. Or you could celebrate that you asked the eight other questions and they went over really well. And also simultaneously acknowledge that the only person on planet Earth who knows you didn't ask those questions is you.

So the audience doesn't even know you, you goofed anything up. They have no idea. Yeah. So who really cares? You know? And, and if you, and if you didn't ask a question as well as you wanted to, or if you tripped on a word, people listen to it and three seconds.

Can let go of everything needs to be perfect and they can just exist. That's when the creativity really starts flowing. That's what, that's kind of what I'm basically coaching people to do in my practice. Like people with anxiety and stress, which I'm coaching them as, that's why I found it, my conversation with you yesterday.

So useful. Yeah, and, and even like in the end when we did a practice interview and then. I, I did amazing. And then I kind of screwed it up at the end, and then I was like, in my mind I was like, well, I totally screwed that one up. And then you were like, no, you did amazing. Who cares about that little thing?

And then I walked away from that with a feeling for the rest of the day. That was a little bit like, well, who cares about that little thing? It was very powerful. Right, because even the most seasoned professionals goof up. Lemme tell you, I have been a TV host for 20 years. I have hosted live tv, tape tv, national tv, local TV game shows, newscast sports.

I have made. A ton of mistakes on live tv. And in the beginning you obsess about 'em, but then you're like, eh, what are you gonna do? And you know, at one point you, I I, I just started to embrace him. So if it was a, a totally harmless throwaway mistake, who cares? I would, I just move on. But if I goofed up on something and I was, I was aware of it, I would own it on camera and make a joke about it.

Usually self-deprecating, like I said, something on a live morning show. Totally. Freudian slip of the tongue. I said something that came out so dirty and I didn't mean it at all, but you know, it was live TV and my cohost is cracking up and my cameraman is crying a laughter, and I'm started. I laughed. Uh, and, and then I made a joke like, well, I guess after the show I'm going straight to hr.

And it just turned out to be like such a cool little moment, you know? And like, it came from a mistake. So sometimes that stuff, like when you watch a movie and you stick around for the outtakes, sometimes those are the, the best parts, the most genuinely charming parts. So I think this idea of like, everything must be perfect is boring.

That's boring. Just be a performer. Oh God, that's, that's so good. That's so good. Yeah. What, um, what does that does? What, what intimidates you the most now about getting out there? Do, do you ever get scared? Is there any fear? I think the only thing now for me is when I, I put undo importance on a speech when I, when I do it to myself.

In other words, I could go interview anybody and the idea of that is not going to make me nervous. I can go on any television show and the idea of that is not gonna make me nervous. But if it's. I, I can be a perfectionist, which is something that I have been working on in my own life for what feels like a hundred years, and I know I keep saying progress, not perfection.

I say it all the time every day, and almost always, I, I acknowledge it and it, and breathe it, but there are times when, for me, the stakes are a little higher. Because I think to myself, oh man, I really want this speech to go well because I want, I want to put this speech on my website and I want to use this speech as my calling card.

So when people wanna, when they want their own great speech, they're gonna see this one. So when I put all of this extraneous stuff on it, then I, I feel a little anxiety, but, You know, as I, as I said to you yesterday, we, we spent some time talking about that is not necessarily a, a bad thing. You know, this idea of like, don't be nervous.

Don't be nervous if, if viewers, your listeners, Or just starting out, they're going to be nervous. You, you all are going to be nervous when you speak in public. Yeah. That, that in and of itself is not that. It's energy as a performer, you want energy, it's what you can do with it. So even to answer your question, even when I do get a little nervous, I've just done this for so long that I can take it and like lean into it and use it to just project more and have more power and, and have a little more presence, uh, with that energy.

So sometimes it's some of my, my better performances when I have the anxiety or the nervousness. That's interesting. What was your quote? I love that quote that Seinfeld has. I, I always, I always watch comedians in cars and coffee now. Yeah, he's great. Yeah. I was saying that as we were talking about the idea of starting off a speech in a dynamic way, not coming out and saying, hi everybody, my name is Dave Azer.

I'm going to talk to you about, Effective public speaking. And here's what we're going to do. Take a look at the slide behind me. First, I'm going to welcome you with a story about blah. How boring is that? So I like to come out and hit people with a quote or a joke or a raise your hand if you love public speaking.

Now, raise your hand if you hate public speaking. Something like that. So I often use the Seinfeld quote and I put it up on the PowerPoint behind me, and he says that, Public speaking is people's number one fear and death is number two, which means at a funeral, you'd rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy, which is such a brilliant means, the best.

It's a great quote and everybody laughs and it's a good way to start a speech because now everybody's, you know, feeling it and you, and you got 'em all on your side and they're engaged with each other. I, I saw an episode, I was watching comedians in the cars getting coffee, and he was speaking about standup, and he was, he said the, the proof and it's like a mathematical proof if a then a geometry.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and then B then C. And so then what you do is, is you, you start with a bunch of people. That are, that are, uh, in, in, in the funeral and you do a mathematical proof that proves they would rather be in the casket than given the eulogy, which is basically what you just did. You know what I mean?

Right. And so then the mathematical proof is so, is is it is just math. Yeah. But then therefore, therefore, that you would rather be dead than talking. Which is, which is, and and it's just such a great setup for wherever you wanna go. Yeah. And, and, um, you know, he, cause I watch comedian cars get in coffee too, and he often talks about.

Uh, so many things that, that I teach that he lives and he breathes. Uh, because I, I talk about how important it's to rehearse and to prepare, and this is a guy who, Jerry Seinfeld, who has performed a million times, he hosted the most successful show ever. He's killed it wherever he's ever gone and he still gets nervous about material and he'll still go to some club at, at one o'clock in the morning and he'll just workshop jokes and they all do it right, like Chris Rock and Chappelle and all these giants, all these titans are still going to the, the yuck yuck store at one 30 in the morning to do a set, which is awesome.

So if, so, if you're a public speaker and you're like, you know what, I wrote this speech. Yeah, it sounds good. That'll be funny. Oh, that'll go well. That joke will kill. I'm ready. You're not ready. If Jerry Seinfeld is not ready, you're not ready. You're not ready. You're not ready. You gotta rehearse on camera.

You gotta watch it. Uh, so you know, he, he, he's, he's so committed to being great, which is why he is great. Who, who's your favorite episode of that show that you, who's, what comedian did you love that he talked to? Oh, oh, on, on comedians and cars. Yeah. Uh, one of the, one of the ones that I thought was, was so great, um, because it was so interesting on multiple levels with the, was the Eddie Murphy one.

Did you see that one? Yeah. God, I loved that. Loved that one. Awesome. Right, because at first I'm watching it with my wife and we're like, Neither of them are being really funny right now. Like this isn't funny in the beginning. So I'm like, I thought this is supposed to be funny. But, but it was thoughtful and it was introspective and it was about their insecurities and starting out in comedy cuz they, they were on a bill together 30 years ago starting out, which incredible to see 'em on the.

Um, but then they just like, I don't know, it just, it was, it was really honest to me about mm-hmm. Hustling and being turned down for stuff and failing and not getting the laugh. But then it just be, then Eddie started doing impersonations and stuff, and it was, it was just horrific. I loved that one too, because I'm trying to think of when they recorded that.

I saw that and then it was right around that time the Dole, my name is Dolemite, came out that, and then Eddie did that, you know, triumphant at the end of 2019, final episode of the season of Saturday Night Live. And that was so iconic. Yeah. And I, for, for me, for that whole second half of the year, it was like a rea ascendancy of Eddie Murphy.

You know, and, and so then to me that that episode was this, this sort of like, I got into his head, which was amazing, and then we got to see the trajectory of that played out, you know, especially, and then, and then, and then it's, in retrospect, it's even greater because all of a sudden that whole thing doesn't exist anymore.

Cuz there was like no Saturday Night Live, you know? Yes. Right. So true. And, and I think there's like a million lessons. Now we're having this conversation. Now I'm really thinking about all of it. I think there's a million lessons to take from it, including when he was on Saturday Night Live, not for his triumph and return, but when he was on that the time before, you know, it was like the 30th anniversary special or whatever it was, and he came out and kind of bombed.

Um, and it didn't go well. To me, that's also a great lesson learned because I said this to you. Performing is always about your audience. It always has to be. And if you are in a lousy mood or if you don't wanna be there, or if you have an agenda, you cannot, as a performer, be selfish. I don't care if you're me or if you're Eddie Murphy, you can't do it because it's not, you know, you, you need to think of performance.

From the audience's perspective. All that, I think for all the time has to be about your audience. And it's like those things, you know, you love music. I love music. Those, and I, I love Bon Jovi, like my favorite band ever. I, uh, oh really? This is my favorite, oh, my favorite band ever. But how many times has he sung living on a prayer?

700,000 times? He may or may not even like that. He might hate that song, but every time he sings, it doesn't matter if his voice hurts, if he's angry at Richie Sambora, whatever. He, I've seen him live probably 35 times and every time he kills it, he goes for it. Even if he can't hit the notes he used to hit.

So what he tries. And so I think, you know, jumping back a little, Betty Murphy, that one time on SNL didn't go well. Like he just wasn't in the spirit of it, you know, he wasn't in the mood to be there kind of thing. Mm-hmm. So another lesson, a valuable lesson for performers is if you're having a bad day, nobody cares.

Fuck it up for five minutes and kill for the audience. And then you could be miserable in your, in your trailer or your car or wherever you go afterwards. Wow, that's interesting. So cool. It kind of reminds me of it, I thinking about, thinking about John Bon Jovi. Like I, I heard, uh, cuz Kenny Rogers passed away and I heard Kenny Rogers talking and he said, I felt like I couldn't be Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson.

Like I couldn't be who they were. So I had to be somebody else. And, you know, I've always felt this way about John Bon Jovi, that like, he, he created something out of thin air. He created like a, almost like a genre, you know, of pop Rock. And I loved that genre because he, he was, he was, Huge. If you think about our, we're quite similar ages.

Mtv. Yeah. Remember when MTV came out and Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Head banger's, ball. Big show. Right. And then he did that. Incredible. Talking about taking a risk, you know's, it's really, what's interesting to me as we're having this conversation is every story we're talking about, I keep thinking of ways to spin that towards teaching points.

He, him and Richie came out in, um, What was the show? It was like an MTV award show and they did an acoustic set. They did one, a debtor, they did living on a prayer and wanted a dead or alive acoustic, which led to the whole acoustic, you know, all of my MTV's acoustic stuff. And he just did this like, oh yeah, yeah, he did that.

This incredible performance of one a debtor alive. That was so great, but, but you know, probably risky in that it's not, Really an acoustic song. I mean obviously part of it is, but he just did, it really stripped down and it led to the advent of this, this franchise, this MTV acoustic franchise. Um, so he was a pioneer in, in many ways and not just cuz he had big frosted hair in the eighties.

Yeah. That's amazing. I, um, last night. I had like the most magical sort of wonderful evening. And it's interesting cause somebody said something to me about MTV Unplugged. That's what it was. I forgot the name. Unplugged, right? MT. And the MTV Unplugged. Yeah. And so then last night, beginning to end, I listened to the Bob Dylan Unplugged because I just said, Hey, this is, let's go back in time.

And he does, um, he does, uh, one of his great sort of, uh, Epic songs, uh, are called Desolation Row, which kind of hearkens to many of the themes going on, probably politically, you know, back then, but as, as true now as they, as they ever were. Mm-hmm. And, but, and I was sitting there right, right here at this table, listening, listening to the richness of the sound that they did on MTV Unplugged.

And I remember like, I remember being so wildly transfixed to to that because you know, come being a kid from Montana, I had never heard anything like that. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. This is the greatest thing going in the world, you know? Fantastic. Revolutionary ahead of their time. So interesting on so many levels.

Interesting. From a television production standpoint. Interesting. From a performance standpoint, because I think, and tell me what you think. I think the performers love doing it. Like it was, it was a really cool thing for them that, so it was a home run for everybody. The MTV made a killing off of it.

People like me and you growing up loved it. And I think for the performers, which you and I were talking about, how to make your guests feel special, I think it made 'em feel special. You know, you had the biggest names in rock music doing these like stripped down acoustic sex. Incredible. You know what we, it's, it's interesting cuz I, uh, I interviewed, uh, Martin and Naomi, um, yesterday and they're kind of rock and rollers and, uh, rock, rock and roll in country country, but they're used to singing to 30,000 people.

And it's a crazy moment right now because their industry literally just evaporated. Sure. You know, and so they're gonna, I'm, I'm so excited about this cuz they're gonna get in an RV and drive around the country and sing and play music, you know, and they're gonna stop here for a week and play music for me.

But, um, we gotta bring back MTV Unplugged. Yeah, we gotta do it. We gotta do it right here and we gotta bring it back cuz we gotta get these musicians because they need to get their songs out there. Yeah. I, you know, a lot of these musicians are doing these. These like YouTube videos and you know, from their living rooms and stuff.

So I've been watching a few of 'em. I was watching Rob Thomas. The other day. I think he's so talented. Uh, and yeah, it's like this cool, it's a different look, you know, it's a look into their homes and Rob Thomas is like playing this huge piano in his living room. It's, it's wild. You're like peeling back the curtain a little bit, you know, seeing these people at home.

I, I, I think it's terrific. I love watching these things. I watched One Republic, they had, it was funny, it was Ryan Satter and then it was, I guess like a, his bass guitar player and his and his league guitar player. And they were all in his, in his house, but they were all social distancing from each other in the same room.

And he had his camera pretty wide angle so you could see everybody. So you're like three musicians from a band in the same room, you know, six feet apart from each other. It's neat. It's creative. Creative people doing, doing really creative stuff. Interesting. Yeah, I think what we have to do is we're gonna, I'm looking forward for that social distancing to be cut in half.

Three feet and then, and then what's gonna happen is gonna be like two feet. Yeah. Because what's gonna happen is, is we, people say, some people ask me, well, when's the social listening gonna end? I, and I was gonna be a social thing. Like, just like the, the band knows that they have to be spread out in the room right now.

Right. You know what I mean? And so then all of a sudden it's like, we're gonna, okay, now everybody take one step closer to. And every time you take a step, they take your temperature, make sure no one has a fever. Yeah. They just keep doing it every step. All right, let's, let's wrap this up. Uh, but dude, I I was like that turned into, we were just doing a whole, I wish we were recording on that.

I mean, I guess we are, we, we, we are recording. We are recording. I gonna put this up. Oh, you are? Oh, you, why not? Come on. Oh, I, oh, that's fine with me. You were, oh, that's fine with me, but I'm sorry that I just, I screwed up the ending then for you. Can you edit it at all? You wanna edit that part out, so, so guess what?

You didn't screw anything up. You were perfect. Well, but this part where I said let's stop. I mean, you don't No, I know. I know. But this is what I'm saying. You were perfect. Right. Thank you. Thank you. But just for the sake of the show. If you could just not use that part, be going, because otherwise the show is gonna be terrible because of that word.

No, but you, but now we're still talking about this on camera, but I, I acknowledge your point, but I'm glad that you're gonna do it cuz it's funny, this whole time I'm thinking like, this is actually amazing. Like, really, it's too bad that we didn't treat this as a, as a thing, but. Yeah. Good for you for being smart enough to actually think forward that you're gonna use it.

Absolutely. My pleasure. Go for it. Yeah. And then, and then I'm gonna have you back and then we're gonna figure out how to, uh, how to reach out to John Bon Jovi. Dude. Also, I'll tell you a quick story. Um, it sticks with me to this day. I don't get starstruck. I have interviewed, I mean, people up here. I was maybe 30 years old living in Manhattan.

Working for Nickelodeon in the same building as t r L, the 1515 bro, uh, building on Broadway and Viacom building. So Bon Jovi was on t r L that day and I somehow did not even know. I had no idea. So I'm down in the, on the first floor lobby in the like snack shack, the concession area, getting a power bar of some nonsense.

Minding my own business. And John Bon Jovi just walks in. And is standing this far away from me. And I was like, mind blown. And the, and he, and as I'm realizing this in real time, he asked the, the lady behind the counter if she cigarettes, and she said, no. And I'm going, Dave, say hi to him. Say hi to him. No, that's blame.

Say something more clever. Say, come up with a song lyric. Say you give cigarettes a bad name. No, that's stupid. Don't say that. Say cigarettes on a prayer. No, that's stupid. And then while I'm doing all of this, she says no. And he says, okay, thanks. And he leaves and I never got to say hi to him. And it has like beaten at me.

Since that day. So that's my, my John Bon Jovi story. So then, so then this is what you're teaching me is to kind of, to reach out and, and, and do that. You know what I mean? I had a similar ex experience. I grew up in Western Montana. And so I grew up listening Country in Full, but I loved The Grateful Dead more than like life itself.

They were just like so large to me. And Jerry Garcia had done all of these collaborations, um, with a guy named David Bromberg, who's like the greatest mandolin player in the world. And so I'm standing in the Seattle airport and I'm just kind of standing there and I have this t-shirt. Like has a Chinese character that's going across, it's like very artistic and I'm just kind of standing there.

And then I look over and David Bromberg is literally standing. I, uh, uh, David Grisman is, is standing right next to me. And so I look over and he goes, I think that's my shirt. Did you steal that?

And I go, No, my cousin gave that to me. He goes, I have the exact same shirt, and you, you, you took that shirt. And so he's kind of like, just toying with me in general. Right. And so then we start to have this amazing conversation. We're kind of joking around and I'm kind of talking and I was super comfortable and then I, I looked at him and I go, And, and I saw like a bunch of guys with like guitars and banjos and stuff like that, standing around.

And so I go, uh, you're, you're David Brisman, right? And then he goes, Yeah. And then he, he, then he realized I knew who he was, so then he walked away. And so for years I was, I was like, fuck, I screwed that up. Wait, so he didn't wanna be a celebrity, he just wanted to be like a regular dude talking, he just wanted to be a reg, he just wanted to be regular dude talking.

And I had like worshiped. The music that he had created with and with Garcia. So it was kinda, but, but, uh, I think it goes to, Being like this version of yourself and letting it all hang out a little bit and then just being okay with it, you know? Totally. Just being okay with it. That's, you know, that's the key.

Like I always say, Ellen to me, is one of the best hosts on tv. I haven't watched her recently, so, uh, maybe she's changed, I don't know. But when Ellen was so successful in her first years as a host, one of the reasons why is because she wasn't a host. She wasn't like classically trained. She was an actress and a comedian, but she was so, it seemed like, seemed like so comfortable in her own skin that she would wear sweatpants and dance like a goofy person and people would just like eat it up, you know?

And she was, she seemed genuinely. Interested in what her guests were saying. She interviewed celebrities better than hosts, who'd been on 20 years, who'd been on TV for 20 years. Did you know, cause these hosts come on and they have their agenda and they ask these questions and they don't listen. And Ellen was just like, tell me about this.

That's so great. No way. Tell me more. But it, like, it worked, you know? And, and to your point, she was herself and she was not classically trained, but who cares? And I, you know, I, I don't, I haven't lost her lately, but she, I. I love Ellen. I, and I love her comedy. Like every I've, uh, did you, did you watch her recent comedy special?

No. Mm-hmm. She has a comedy special on Netflix, and, and, and she does, she d she does a little bit, but it's like a slightly different version of like the comic proof. Okay. You know, and she, she did a little bit of that, and then her, um, her comedians and cars getting coffee was, was totally sublime. Yeah. All right.

I'll take it out. There's so many good ones. I, the Alex Baldwin one was great too. Did you see that one? Yes. Yes. And you know, it's interesting to me because he, he has the potential to be a little bit of a, like a controversial character. Yeah. Look, I, we could, I could definitely say that right to his face and he would be like, I know, right?

But, but yet, when, when you, when you listen to him, he's, I think that he has a more academic, intellectual, and, and super serious, hardworking, dramatic actors take on both on comedy. Kinda like what you're saying is like, if I. I would like to have a holodeck experience where I could just go in and then talk to him about media for about a hundred hours.

Yeah. And just, you, you, do you know what I mean? Cause it was listening to him, I, I, I sat there and I realized, oh, he understands all of the mechanics of what's going on. I think he takes his crap very seriously. Super seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I really do. I, because how many, how many great actors. How many actors can be, can be great at comedy and be great at drama.

He's, he's so versatile in his roles. Hilariously funny, 30 rock. He's just, Incredible. I mean, his Trump stuff I think is really good too. But then you look at the pantheon of dramatic films he's done, and then he done action films. Remember when he was like the action star back in the day, he was Jack Ryan, guy's done everything so talented and, and, but, and that story, you know, and, and the comedians in Carl's episode, it's a great example because he talked about being, um, being like in high school and getting up and going and working all day, right?

And I think that, that, that work you, you never met anybody that likes to work hard like me. Like I love hard work more than anybody I've basically ever met. And so then when I see guys like that, and it's even like, it's a comedy thing. And then I see, like when I, the Baldwin one, I sat there and I was like, oh, he is like, he is from my tribe.

He's from like the. Let's just go work harder than everybody else. And then I realized, oh, I love you. You know, he's, and so it's like, and so then it's kinda, it's interesting then to sort of take in media now in this, in these times because it's kinda like, oh, okay, well maybe the Eddie Murphy thing wasn't super funny, but it doesn't matter because you get this window into people's lives and then, and, and what they're about.

And it's like a, to me, The exciting thing is, is that then you begin to create something that has an artistic arc, just like a band does. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like the stones will have, you can have periods, but you're designing, you're, you're designing and creating kind of an artistic take on what we're receiving, you know, in, in the universe and in the world.

So, It's, it, it fills me with a sense of it. It fills me with the same feeling I think, that you got when you first, when the lights came on, when you were in high school, and it, it fills me with this feeling of like, oh, I, I can do this. Yeah, I can. And in my small corner of the world. Let me tell you, um, you can do this because you just interviewed me for like 45 minutes for what I thought was gonna be a five minute exercise.

I thought this was gonna be like, yeah, ask me a few questions. I'll press stop, we'll go over it. But I was just, I was just, I forgot that I was coaching you, and it just became this, like, the hosted conversation. Then I, and by the way, it became a conversation, not an interview, which is always the goal.

Always the goal. Uhhuh. Um, I have to go. My, I'm taking my wife out for a, a mother's day walk. Um, but, uh, but let's whatever you want to do next. Let's keep doing stuff together. Awesome. It's gonna be great.

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