Dr. Cook Roundtable Q&A Series: Latest Strategies for Using NAD+ to Treat a Range of Conditions

 The testing for entities is not, uh, not prime time yet. And so because of that, we're, uh, we're evaluating, uh, clinically to get a sense of, um, uh, how people are doing. You're listening to a Bio Reset medical podcast with Dr. Cook. If you have questions, we're gonna talk more about your symptoms and issues.

You can always reach us at 6 5 0 8 8 8 7 9 5 0. The following is a q and a hosted by Dr. Cook, where he hosts weekly calls with doctors. Okay, so today's gonna be a great day. We're gonna talk about, uh, we'll go through like a nice little conversation on any d um, the, um, I got a question. This is, it is interesting.

I got a question like, uh, have you had any experience of a favor bowel outcome with any D I V treating a ls? Um, I LS as is I think catastrophically difficult, uh, to, to deal with. And interestingly, like all of these neurocognitive neurodegenerative problems, there's a spectrum of ALS patients. And so there are some that get als that, uh, uh, basically, uh, it has a very aggressive, uh, course and, uh, those patients can decompensate fairly quickly.

Um, and other people will come on more slowly and there's a whole host of different, uh, manifestations of of, of how it presents. Uh, and I, I've had, uh, I've been working with a patients with a l s for, for many years. I haven't found anything that I feel like is dramatically helpful. Um, I think that there's a, a logic for, for, for doing N A D and I've, uh, done n A D and I know patients that have a l s that have done some infusions of N N A D and gotten, uh, what they felt like was some benefit.

I know people who've done the PK protocol. I know, uh, people who have done regenerative medicine, um, and. My, my sense of ALS is that it's managing a very difficult time course. And, and all, all of the experiments that, uh, are in the category, the treat als, I think are experimental. And then unfortunately, I don't know anyone who is, who's really cracked the code and is making profound and, and, um, meaningful changes in aals.

That being said, I, I still think that it's a, uh, it's, we, we still have to do everything we can to take care of those patients, but there's not a, um, there's no, there's no great answer for that. And I think that, um, I think that ultimately the solution to that is gonna be like the solution to many of these things we were talking about, Ms.

Uh, last week. And I think it's that, uh, there's gonna be a case to be made for peptides, for regenerative medicine, for, uh, a functional medicine approach that is underlying it to try to assess what, once again, are any of the obvious things that we've talked about, mold, infection, Lyme disease, or any of those things present or not present.

If they're not, then great, we don't have to worry about that. If they are, then we have to start our way through kind of a, a logical process of dealing with that. And so, you know, with that in mind, I think that there are, are, uh, many, many modalities that may be helpful, but I think it's also, uh, important, uh, to, to not.

Meet somebody with a new diagnosis of als and then, uh, to give them the impression that, oh, uh, this, this is probably gonna be really helpful for you and, uh, cure things. Because a lot of times I find that people are, um, uh, have been maybe too, uh, maybe had more hope for therapy to be transformative than, than it had to be.

And, and I think that a l s is the most difficult, uh, condition to treat that I'm aware of. So with, with that in mind, that's, um, that's kinda my thought on that. And if you wanted me to talk more about als, I'd be, I'd be, um, happy to do that. Uh, just put a question in your chat box. Dr. Cook, it was just submitted.

I, I have not. So do you wanna read the question? Have you used n e d to treat mal requirement syndrome? I have not treated that condition. Um, so then, uh, so then it's, it's interesting. So n e d is this interesting, um, molecule. It's a, it's a, I think of it as a, as a signaling molecule. And it's a signaling molecule that relates to our, uh, Energy stores in our body.

And so, as long as our n e D levels are high a signal that energy stores are good, I, I kind of like to say that economic indicators are good. Uh, and if energy is good, then that means we can do things. And so if N E D is high, we tend to drive D N a repair. We tend to drive detox pathways. And, uh, it's a driver, uh, for oxidative phosphorylation in the mitochondria.

Uh, and then it drives, uh, physiological processes in the cell. And there are, um, we, when we went to medical school, we haven't had a good test and we still don't have a good test for N E D levels. Um, partly because it's, it's quite unstable. And so if you want to, uh, if you want to test n e d uh, levels in plasma, What happens is, is the, in, in the current algorithm, what people do is they, uh, stick a needle, draw blood, uh, put that blood in a cooled centrifuge.

And so the cooled centrifuge, and I actually have one of these just because I have been wanting to get into doing this, um, and I'm still not doing it, and I'll tell you why I'm not doing it. But basically, you put it into the cooled centrifuge, spin it, get the plasma, and then freeze it. And then the logic is that, uh, they take that, uh, uh, frozen plasma and then, uh, take a whole bunch of samples and then they run them together to to, to test.

Um, my understanding from talking to the PhDs that I work with is, is that, um, the, uh, they have very good. Within a test, uh, validation, but then test to test level. They've been having challenges in validation. And the, the testing thing for N A D levels is, has been done by research labs, but, uh, there have been challenges because of the low stability, uh, of it in, in reproducing levels.

And so that, uh, we're, we're, we're clinically assessing, uh, how people are. And then, uh, BA based upon that, uh, when to use any D So the testing is basically, the moral of the story is the testing for entities is not, uh, not prime time yet. And so because of that, we're, uh, we're evaluating, uh, clinically, uh, To get a sense of, um, uh, how people are doing.

And so then it's great because, uh, uh, this week, uh, is a, uh, a great week because this is kind of an addiction week for us. And so, uh, I've got, uh, a number of people, uh, who have had addiction, uh, issues for quite some time who are here, and were running them through our protocol. Uh, so remember I said, and any d is this signaling molecule.

Uh, as long as the levels are high, the concept is, is that we can do all the things we need to do. We can run our detox pathways and, uh, uh, make energy and, and, and repair our d n A and do what we have to do. Um, what, uh, what happens is, is if someone has been drinking very large amounts of alcohol, Then, uh, there's, the, the theory is, is that two molecules of n e d are lost for every molecule of alcohol that's broken down by alcohol dehydrogenase.

So alcohol dehydrogenase, uh, breaking down alcohol is an, is a metabolically expensive project in the body. And so since it's a metabolically expensive project, uh, we need to donate energy to facilitate that reaction. And N a D donates that energy. But then what, what happens is, is as, as, uh, then, uh, some of that n a d that is in the n A D stores that was gonna be used to make more energy ends up being utilized to break down alcohol and, um, That's also the case with opioids.

And uh, and so then what we will do is we will, uh, do a 10 day protocol where we, uh, do an infusion every day for 10 days, take the weekend off. So we do a Monday to Friday, take a couple days off, and then do a Monday to Friday rotation again, where we're giving any d every day. Now, um, the experience is quite interesting with, with, um, alcohol I think is potentially one of the better experiences with N E D that there, that exists on the planet, I think, and that's because as, as you start to give people the n e d typically somewhat, somewhere between day one and day three or four, all of a sudden people kind of like.

Wake up and then start to interact more and people are like, oh my God, I feel like I'm alive again. It's really, it's really super interesting and what people will tell me is the cravings start to go down. Uh, and so it's been a, uh, a super great experience for us. Uh, remember I said that you can do n a d subq, you can do it iv, uh, you can do creams that you can rub on, uh, you can do patches.

Um, and so then there's a, uh, and then you can do the nasal spray. The, the issue is, is for, for the addiction space, and there's been more of a history and more of a long-term use with n a D in addiction than in any other space in medicine. Uh, and so, uh, so we, we do the IV form in addiction. And the reason is, is because we're pushing to get to a dose that is high enough.

And so then what dose am I talking about? I'm on, on addiction. I'm gonna try to get to 750 to a thousand milligrams a day. Uh, if, if somebody has an a, an extensive and long-term history of addiction. So then you say, uh, how long does that take? And it's interesting, it takes somewhere between, um, Somewhere between three and, and, uh, three and six or eight to 10 hours.

I, I still remember the, and, and what happens when you give any div people get a flushing and a histamine reaction. And interestingly, I think that it, that there's a, an a component of the flushing that relates to your methyl status. And I'm gonna explain that in a second. Uh, but there's a component that also relates to your detox status.

And, uh, and so then in my, in my old life, which was super interesting, I was an anesthesiologist and so I was breathing inhalational anesthetics like every day for quite a bit because. Every time you take a patient to the recovery room, you're breath, they're breathing sibo, florine on you the whole time is super interesting.

But, um, so I, I remember I, and I was kind of worried about the money myself cuz I didn't have any money. And so I, uh, I said, well, let's do this. Let's do N A d and I, I still remember it to this day because I, I put an IV in and I gave it to myself and I put a thousand milligrams in the bag and I said, let's do this.

And it was, um, it was like three o'clock in the afternoon and I finished that IV at about two 30 in the morning. Um, and so then it, what, what that shows you is that I was fairly, I think I was fairly toxic and my methyl status was probably not that good because it was, that was a long time ago and I hadn't done a lot of this stuff.

And so if I sped it up, I got. Overwhelmingly intense histamine, uh, type of reaction and that histamine reaction. Sometimes people feel it in the heart, sometimes they feel it in the diaphragm, sometimes they feel it in the abdomen, and then sometimes they feel it in the pelvis. I, if they're walking around, you'll feel it in their muscles.

And then sometimes people can feel it in their head. And then almost every time when somebody does the id, um, uh, you'll feel it in your sinus. And when you feel out your sinus, you'll often sneeze a couple times, and then that will go away after about 15 minutes. But some people will have sinus, uh, sinus congestion and symptoms for maybe like the whole length of the IV that day.

Any of those feelings. Almost immediately, within five minutes go away once you stop the iv. Uh, I, the reason I say all of this is because it's useful to memorize and know all of those, uh, symptoms if you're, uh, treating someone just so that you can talk your way through, uh, and, and help talk, talk people through those symptoms.

Uh, the, I, I, um, did this podcast with Joe Mercola and as part of doing the podcast, it was awesome. He sent me a podcast that he had done like the day before, cuz he was doing this mitochondrial thing with, uh, Dr. Sinclair from Harvard, who's a total genius. And I super respect him. And I don't know him, but I do wanna talk to him as soon as I can.

Um, But I was listening to him and he was talking about the methyl cycle, and he was talking about the fact that he takes fairly significant doses of his supplements. But then when he looked at the methyl cycle, he realized that, um, uh, as you shuttle through the methyl cycle and, and through the, the n a d salvage pathway, having methyl donors is helpful.

And so then I looked at all of that, and then I realized, I wonder what would happen if you gave someone methyl support when they did the N A D I V. And so then I started giving people trimethylglycine. And that was just kind of a, a wild shot in the dark just because it's the, the, it's a methyl donor that I think is the easiest, the most easily tolerated methyl donor.

That doesn't seem to have much in the way of side effects. And so I. I, uh, started giving people trimethylglycine before any divs. And what I found is, is that the, the severity of the flushing reactions that people get when they do an N A D I V went down by more than 50%. For some people it totally went away and other people still had some flushing.

And so then that's an interesting data point. Uh, what's happened is I've done just, you know, whatever field you're in, you're gonna do a lot of, so if you're a plastic surgeon, they all have like, way too much plastic surgery. So I've probably given myself too much N a D, but, and I, I, I'm gonna, I joke, but then I'm gonna tell you my thoughts about that as well.

But, um, interestingly, as time went on and I did it more, What happens is that, that that flushing reaction seems to kind of fade. And so on a scale from one to 10 of getting flushing with n e d now, it, to me it's like a one, like I, I kind of barely feel it. And I've generally noticed that over time, that, uh, people, uh, have less symptoms.

And I've also noticed over time that a lot of the people that I have seen for some time do better and better and better, and they don't need as much of it. And I'll kind of talk you through, through that part. The, and, and interestingly, I, I feel that that flushing has a vascular component cuz when you feel it in your chest, it's almost like you feel it, uh, in your, in your heart.

Um, and then whatever, whatever, uh, the. Issue that people present with when they come to see you often gets exacerbated while you're doing an iv. So for example, we had been having this conversation about like, just what I just said. And then, um, I started to get, uh, some people with endometriosis and then they would feel the n a D flushing in the area where they, they would feel endometriosis pain.

And so then that's, that's uh, just an interesting sort of idea to, to, um, to be aware of. Um, there, somebody texted in, uh, Ken texted in, would, would an antihistamine help? That's a great idea. We, we should test that. I haven't tested that, but we've just done this methyl support. Um, that's a really, really very good idea.

So good job. Um, I'll test that tomorrow. Um,

so then, uh, other things, it's interesting if you do an IV ozone treatment, it turns out, um, it turns out that the flushing that you get, uh, with N A D is also about half. And so a lot of people, if you'll, if you give them IV ozone and you give them the mental support, they get the N A D and they like barely feel anything.

Someone asked the question of what can you combine, uh, with IV in terms of IVs? And so since we're on the topic of ozone, I often will combine n a D and ozone together because I, I think that they're quite synergistic. And the, one of the major philosophies that Dr. Shellenberger has forth is that, uh, N A D facilitates these oxidation reduction reactions and N a d, uh, and ozone will donate an electron and convert N A D H back into n a D plus.

And so the idea is that ozone increases your n a D levels, intracellularly. And that's because that electron gets shuttled into the cell, either by a lipid peroxide that was created when O three combined with a lipid or the O three dissolves into the cell and then converts any DH into any d plus. And so his idea is that increases the n d plus to any DH ratio, which intracellular intracellularly, the goal is for that ratio to be 700 to one.

Now, this is a hypothetical number that's based on some of the basic science, but, um, uh, I, I think that that's, that's the best, the best information going that, that we have right now. What, what I can tell you is I've had 40 or 50 people. Who I did IBO Ozone for, and I gave them n a d and they felt like they'd had like 10 cups of coffee.

Uh, in general, people just feel really good and feel like they have a sense of energy, but some people, basically the N A D is driving energy and then the ozones driving energy, and then together they're, they're, they have this very synergistic effect. What, what, uh, what then, uh, what, how do you manage that?

And then how I manage that basically is, uh, sort of this similar conversation to what we do all the time, which is start low, go slow, this Barry Shallenberger, uh, ask, take your time and then do, um, do one thing at a one or two things at a time and not, not give everything at the same time. Um, and so the question somebody wrote is, It doesn't make sense as O three is an oxidant.

So O three is an oxidant. Uh, what happens is in the body, it donates an electron when it donates an electron. So it, it has an oxidant effect on the body. Uh, the body responds by having an antioxidant response to the O three, but when it donates, its, its electron that electron does something. And the, the theory is that when it donates that electron, it converts n d hvac to n d plus.

So that's the, that's the, the concept. Um, so then, and so then our worldview on N E D, uh, was informed and comes from the experience of, of the addiction world. And so then within, within that space, uh, People would do a 10 day protocol. And Dr. Meier, uh, who, who's down, kind down kind of near New Orleans, um, uh, has has been doing, uh, any divs for people for I think 15 years or so.

And, uh, is, I'm super grateful to him and to the work that he has done. And, and, and, uh, I have spoken to many people that he has treated. And, and he is, he has really helped to inform and shape the educational experience for people, um, who in, in this space. And it's, I I think it's been, it's been really, really, uh, wonderful.

His. His contribution to, to science in this regard. The, um, the experience that they had there, and I got this from talking to him and his wife, uh, who's also great. And the, the experience was that they would do, uh, the N A D I V and a lot of times what would happen is, is they in the addiction side and they would do the 10 day period and they said people would do great, but then all of a sudden it was like they went off a cliff and two months later, or three months later or six months later, it would be like, it, it never, they never happened.

And then they would come back into their clinic and they would do an N A D iv and then generally in one or two days they would get back to where they had been at 10 days. And so what, uh, when I first learned about n e D, the idea was well just do the 10 day protocol for addiction and then see how they do.

And then whenever things start to get a little sketchy, then just have 'em come in for booster. And the idea would be, uh, if they came in for a booster in three months, then uh, what you would do is then have 'em come back another three months for their booster. What we evolved into doing is we evolved into doing a 10 day protocol and then doing boosters sooner to try to prevent people from having problems.

And what I immediately started doing is, uh, doing subcutaneous n a d where you take a vial. And so the n a D that comes in the subcutaneous form is 200 milligrams per mil. And so, Remember on the IV side, on the addiction side, we're trying to get to 750 milligrams. And so 200 milligrams is a lot less than 750 milligrams.

And so, uh, but still you don't have to have an iv and it's super easy and it takes about 10 seconds to do. So that's, I think, positive and, uh, uh, a good experience. And so we, we started doing this and I've, I've got about four or five different algorithms that I use for the, for the subcutaneous, a e d, and addiction.

And, uh, for a lot of people when they leave here after the 10 day protocol, I'll have them do one, um, one. Subcu a month, a a week. And so then they're just doing a, a treatment once a week. Uh, I'll have some people who will do it, um, uh, a couple times a week. And then for people who've had fairly sustained addiction, things that have been going on, I'll, I'll will have them do it three or four or five days a week for the first month to just kind of get them, get them through that moment.

The, it's, it's a lot of n e d on the one hand. Uh, but on the other hand, what I found is if I am willing to escalate up my frequency of dosing, uh, in that first month, I, I feel that I keep symptoms and cravings low. And when I do that, uh, it's like I talked to one guy, this really nice conversation with him and he was like, you know, I'm, I'm doing great.

I'm. Talking to my sober living person. But he goes, if I'm honest with you, I'm still trying to figure out every single day how I can sneak up and get a drink. And, uh, and, and I think that the biochemistry of resetting with the n e d is, is super helpful. Uh, on that front. When people come in for that. I will often do some ozone, uh, combined with it.

Uh, and outta that 10 days, I might do that, uh, two, two or three times. But I won't do that every day because I don't want to do too much ozone. And, uh, but I do find that, uh, that's very helpful. Uh, in, in the addiction space, I will generally give vitamin C, uh, B complex B12 and magnesium every single day that they do their addiction IVs.

And I find that, I find that. Uh, when I do that, um, people do better. So I'm giving an antioxidant, I'm giving magnesium mag. Everybody generally feels magnes better with magnesium. It relaxes the blood vessels. A lot of these people have headaches and a lot of times the magnesium will help with that and, uh, it relaxes the blood vessels.

Uh, and I've noticed that when I do that, that also makes NA d go better than if I don't give the vitamin C and all that stuff together. And so a hundred percent of the time I bundle in all of those IVs with the N A D and I don't charge anymore for it. Um, the next thing is, is that, uh, glutathione is a great antioxidant, uh, for patients with liver issues.

Glu glutathione's an important antioxidant in the liver. And I, uh, have, have noticed that it can be extremely helpful for many patients. I've also noticed that, that some patients can have quite a bit of trouble with glutathione and uh, and sometimes I think that's a, because they can't, uh, deal with, uh, sulfur compounds.

And when that happens, uh, uh, that can be a challenge. Sometimes people are low in molybdenum, and so we have molybdenum and if, if, uh, we give glutathione, a lot of times people will, uh, uh, people will, uh, will give them, uh, some sublingual molybdenum and they'll absorb that, and then those symptoms will go away.

And so then obviously I evolved to, every time we give people IV glutathione, then I, I give them the sublingual binum before we give it to 'em. Now, then the next thing on detox, you know, and it is interesting. Glutathione, any d can trigger detox. And then the, the other thing that can trigger detox reactions is, um, glutathione.

And so I re, I, I had, um, one person who just about, I felt like it was gonna code on me, uh, when I, when I gave them glutathione. And it's interesting because the, uh, the traditional conversation, and I think it was be before people basically knew how to use anterior cast, is that they would put a butterfly needle in and then do a myers cocktail push and then they would do a push of glutathione.

And I super strongly recommend that nobody does that. Uh, primarily because I have. Like 20 or 30 people who I just super love as patients that got IVs where they got that genre of IV and it, it, it, it led to a bunch of, uh, basically like thickening and ca and clotting of their veins. And so that their va, all of their veins are totally scarred up.

Uh, if you make isotonic solutions of vitamin C and these things, and I can coach you in how to do that, but uh, that never happens. And so I think that that's like a crucial, crucial thing to be aware of. Uh, the next thing is, is that glutathione is interesting. It can cause a hell of a detox reaction. And if I go back to myself, I remember the next thing I learned about glutathione.

I was like, let's do this. And I gave it to myself and I thought I was gonna die. It was like, it was crazy. And so then I had to back way off and start to give myself super low doses of glutathione. And so I would give like, uh, and so glutathione is also 200 milligrams per mil. And so if, if I, if somebody walks in and it seems like they don't have any problems, then I'll, what I do is I give one three ccs of glutathione, which is 600 milligrams, which is kind of a standard dose.

And then I will ask the nurses to hang that and drip it really slow for like 15 minutes. And so what I'm getting out of that, and Virginia Osborne is one of my mentors who I found who be very influential and she teaches IV therapy courses. And I think her and Dr. Anderson are, are probably two of the smartest, um, smartest IV therapy educators in, in the world today.

And I, I have, I give them by far my highest recommendation. And it is interesting cuz even they talked about, I, I was, I went just to see what was happening to one of their courses and right away they said, oh yeah, we used to always do IV glutathione as pushes, but now we always put it in a hundred cc bag.

And we've noticed we people do a lot better with that. So that, that's, these, these are little, like little pearls that I don't know if they're helpful, but I found, I, I wish that somebody would've told me a bunch of this stuff five years ago. Um, so then, uh, so then to answer the question on N E D. A hundred percent of the time when I give N A D I will do combinations of vitamin C and magnesium and B complex as, as one thing, and then follow that up with n a d.

The you can combine and, and they seem to combine very well, uh, B vitamins and magnesium and vitamin C. Glutathione doesn't like to be combined with those. So I never do glutathione in the same bag as those other things. And I always do glutathione last, and then n e d uh, is unstable. And so we never do glutathione with all of those things either.

Um, that being said, I, you know, I've talked to Virginia and I've talked to some of these people well, um, and they'll say, oh, if somebody's, sometimes we'll just put maybe half a CC or one cc i e. Let's say 50 or a hundred or 200 milligrams in like a Myers cocktail bag. There are some people who do that. Um, the teaching from Dr.

Mattea is strongly to not do that. And so I have not done that, but I know that there are some people who will combine the, combine, the n a d with other vitamins. But my, my experience has been to keep it separate and I've done very well. And, uh, that's been my, my practice is to, to keep them separated and then sort of to thematically work our way through that.

The, um, the one. One knock on n a d is that it? It may drive senescence, uh, cellular senescence, which, which is, uh, cells that are taking up space in our body, uh, but um, have become dysfunctional, are not doing something. My analogy is they're taking up a room in the office, but they're not, they're, they're not part participating.

Um, and so then there is an idea of if you're gonna do ad then to combine something that is, uh, a lytic with that. And so then, uh, my favorite thing in that category is, is quent. And so we'll always combine quercetin, uh, uh, with n e d. And if you're doing that orally, I think you can probably go up to, um, go up to, you know, uh, Very easily a gram, but even potentially you can go to high dose, particularly if you're not doing any d that frequently.

Um, maybe one or two grams. And, um, and, and we, we've had a good experience with that and our experiences is that when you, when you combine, uh, quercetin with a a d people, I, people generally will feel better. And I think it's just a more harmonious way to do it. And then we will, uh, we've, we've got a bunch of different algorithm things that we do.

Uh, I, if I do it, if, uh, I, I have it around, which I usually do, we have Sammy, and if you take Sammy with n e d, it makes this either the Sam. Works better or the n a d works better. I think they're both working better. SAM e is part of that methyl cycle you're driving and if you take the TMG and Sam E and N a D, that's probably the most energy that I've ever felt in my life.

Um, so that was, I mean, I felt like an incredible amount of energy when I did that. Um, now that being said, people who are fragile, whose energy pathways are not, uh, fully dialed in, you don't want to give them that charge because they probably can handle, and a lot of times they'll feel a little shaky and fragile with that, whereas if you've kind of worked everything out, probably is gonna be fine.

Uh, another thing is interestingly, When you inject the N A D subq, uh, it can burn and then some patients, 10%, 5% will, will have a fairly significant detox reaction when they inject N A D subq. And, but they'll be totally fine when you give N A D iv. And I have a theory that those patients are somehow inflammatory in their fat and their fat's a little toxic.

And I haven't really noticed it to be related to actually how big they are. And so I've seen some people who are pretty skinny and then I'll do, or, or normal, and we'll do the, uh, will do the N A D. Subq, and then they'll have this real detox reaction, or they'll have a lot of pain at the injection site.

Um, it turns out, I think I was one of those people when I did N e d subq at the beginning, I thought, I have made it to the Promised Land. This is gonna be the greatest, um, N a D subq, and I did it, and it, it, it, I was like really uncomfortable for like four or five hours every time I did it. And then I think I, I did it about 20 or 30 times, and then next thing you know, um, it, uh, it went away.

And so now it doesn't feel like anything now, as I was saying now. But what I've noticed also is, is that, When you start to do the N A D subq, it seems to reset these energy pathways. And then once you've done it a while, I notice you don't really need to do it anymore. And so the only time I do it is if we have like expired BS, and then I just will use, kind of use 'em up.

Um, and then it's kind of interesting for me to ex experiment around with that. What my, what my idea is, is that if you're gonna do it, I'd like to use N A D to drive some physiological processes. And I'm thinking, I'm, I'm trying to think, uh, who am I dealing with and what am I dealing with? I'm d am I dealing, I'm on an infection pat, uh, a detox, a wellness, an addiction.

So I'm kind of looking in into what's happening with those people and I'm trying to drive that. And then step back and then try something else. And so then one, one thing that we've played around with on the peptide side is doing, uh, doing N E D and then taking a break from that and doing five amino one mq.

Uh, and then taking a break from that and then doing, going back to N A D, so cycling through that pathway. Um, the, you know, I talked to Dr. Seeds in some detail who I think is the smartest person on peptides that's on the, on the planet right now. Like, ki