Musicians Martin Johnson and Naomi Cooke Chat with Dr. Cook

 Everybody sing bridge over trouble, water bridge over trouble water, just letting it come. I was like, I was getting a nerve block injection, so I was like kind of really like open, kind of accepting that everything's gonna be okay finally for the first time. And so everybody's singing to me. I'm crying like the best.

You're listening to a Bio Reset medical podcast with Dr. Cook. If you have questions, we'll wanna talk more about your symptoms and issues, you can always reach us at 6 5 0 8 8 8 7 9 5 0. Okay. Hi, welcome to the show. Today's gonna be an amazing day cuz I've got my good friends Martin Johnson, who's a singer, songwriter, producer, and was in a band named Boys Like Girls.

And his current project is the Night Game. And then Naomi Cook, who's in a really cool, uh, country band named Runaway June. Yeah. You got, you nailed it. That was great. It was beautiful. Great. What an introduction. That was the first take. I remember I was friends with Martin and, um, uh, he was so excited for me to meet Naomi.

And then you walked in and you had a Led Zeppelin t-shirt on. I was like, yeah. We're all good here. Yeah, we're all good. This is family time, so Well, welcome to the show guys. Um, we were just talking a little bit about, so it sounds like you guys had, uh, uh, were the, the day today is May 9th. Mm-hmm. And so then you, um, you guys just back, got back from quarantining up in Maine?

Yeah, it was a full two months. We did like, it was basically March 12th, so an exact two months, like eight weeks. Um, we beelined like right when they were shutting down stuff, sessions were getting canceled and stuff. We. Uh, it's so quiet there. Like I grew up in rural Maine where it's just silent and it was funny cuz it took them so long to catch up with the fear and so it was like, let's go somewhere where it's supposed to be quiet so it doesn't feel too irregular to be quiet.

Um, and we blitzed before it, like long before they shut everything down here and uh, you know, got there and posted up and right when things kind of started getting normal and they opened natural back up. We were like, alright, we'll come back down. I was in Europe when they, um, I we, we were in uh, we were doing our European tour, uh, in February and we got to Amsterdam, Berlin and Zurich and we were supposed to do Dublin, London, Glosgow, and Australia.

And we got shut down like right after Zurich. And we were like, we have 24 hours to get home before the travel ban. So that was, and then I got home and we went straight up to Maine, Donald put out the travel ban and I basically said like, we're outta here. Like you're gonna land and you're gonna pack and we're out.

I'm gonna get in the truck and we're going, it's over. Yeah. Wow. That um, that's gotta be super How was, how, I mean, that's gotta be so crazy. Your, your whole profession is being in front of large groups of people and what's that like? You know, it, it's, I would love to say that I'm personally taking it in a super tragic way cause I know it's such a tragedy, but I'm seeing it a little bit more as an exciting new chapter.

And I hate when exciting new ch chapters have to be, you need a tragedy to, to get change. I think that's kind of where we're at. Now. Um, and so I, I'm excited to see what happens. Personally, I feel really, really major limitations by doing the stuff that everybody's doing to keep normal in the music industry.

I e like the broadcast thing, the like playing at your computer, the talking to your screen, the sort of like, I did this like online festival where I like had this like MIDI controller and like some beats coming through my laptop and I'm like singing at my computer screen at the cabin in Maine. And I was just like, I got off it and I got done and like zillion, like a lot of people are watching and I got off and I was like, that was such a strange experience.

Like, I don't want to do that anymore. I'm singing at the wall pretending it's 30,000 people and you feel no energy. There's no energy. And so it was like, um, I'm excited to see what's next. You know, I was kind of at a point in my career where I felt like I was hitting a wall a little bit. In the studio where it felt like it was a little bit of, uh, maybe a cage.

And on the road, um, you know, we canceled the huge Boys Like Girls Tour. We were gonna do Asia and, uh, and Australia with like, play our first record, which is more of like a nostalgia based tour. Um, you pay your play your first that gonna be, it was gonna be like late April right? Right after me, right after I got back from Europe.

He was going late April. So I think I maybe would still be out now. Maybe May. Yeah. Or either out or it's just, or just done with it now and it was just like kicked down the line till like mid-September, which I don't think is gonna happen. I hope it does. And you know, we haven't announced a reschedule, but like, I mean, what do you think?

What's interesting is when I was in Europe, so Covid had already broken out and it was, it was, there was a big breakout in Italy at the time, but Italy hadn't gone like completely crazy. And we had military shows booked for Italy. Um, but our team was like, I don't think it's safe for you to go there.

We're afraid you won't be able to travel if you've been where there's an outbreak. So we were like, okay, skip that. We went to Germany and we had, um, two shows with 3,500 people there. No one was in masks or anything. And this was like at a time where your had been already. It um, it was like no one there was freaking out.

It didn't feel crazy. There felt really crazy when we got back to the us. Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh God. Like the US was like, ma freaking out. Well I wanna say Martin, welcome to my life cuz for the last, um, 25 years I've been singing it to a wall pretending there was 30,000 people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The shampoo bottles, you draw little eyes on them in your shower.

Yeah. I mean, I, I've experienced it first firsthand on the table Needle in my neck doc singing. And I'm mean, you, you've at least had a one, a sedated audience. You know where I'm down. Like, know where you can go. Yeah. I regularly, I, I was impressed. You know, I regularly sing, I regularly sing to one to two people.

Yeah. You was singing to singing to the patients. I love it. I was trying to remember what song did we sing, Naomi Cuz when I sang with you in the office. Oh, that was good. It was a Paul Simon song. Oh. That we sang. Um, American Tune. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. All I could do was think how totally amazing your voice was and that this was the greatest thing that I'd ever done in my life up until now.

So, sweet. I remember. So fun. I remember it was you, you're like, you brought in lyrics and you're like, okay, learn these lyrics really quick cuz we're gonna surprise Martin with this. Before we, it was just the, it was the, I mean, where else in the world are you gonna go to a place, get medical treatment and have that experience?

Well, when you go, when I was down getting like my 17th like placenta matrix injection, you and Barb and, um, and Hasi and like everybody, everybody's in, it's like other doctors are in the office and whatever. Everybody's singing, bridge over trouble, water, singing, bridge over trouble, water, just letting it cut.

And I was like, I was getting a nerve block injection, so I was like kinda really like open and kinda ready and not like closed off, you know? I was like kind of accepting that everything's gonna be okay. Finally, for the first time ever. And so everybody's singing to me, I'm crying. It's like the best. Yeah.

So then that's the thing is like a bridge over troubled waters. So then, like, right now, and, and what's interesting, I'm gonna tie this concept and then let's talk about this. Okay. Traditionally in the stock market, the more volatility there is the, the, the more probability there is for games. Mm-hmm. So volatility is not necessarily a bad thing.

No. And so then in the same way, there's a lot of volatility now, and yet, at any moment in your life, you can see a bridge. A bridge over the troubled waters that you're in. And for me, I use music so much, but it's like, I love what you said for the first, for the first time ever, you realize it's gonna be okay.

And we were talking about this before. Mm-hmm. The, and I've been really interested in this. I've been kind of almost thinking of like life on a timeline. And then if you can, I'll go as far outta my way as I can to make it okay. Right now. Cuz if it can be o If it can be Okay. Cuz I, I loved what you were saying earlier when we were talking Martin.

Yeah. Like getting to an idea that it's gonna be okay tomorrow, right. Is kind of somewhat helpful. Except that's just this existential idea. Right. It's it's a powerful drug. It's addictive. It can be addictive. It's like it'll be okay when I have 5 million, then you get 5 million. It's like, okay, it'll be okay.

It'll actually be okay when I get 10 million. Yes. And it's really powerful drug Cause it can keep you going. It can keep you in a game. But it also really holds you back. It keeps you in a state of fear. It keeps you in a state of, um, scarcity and it keeps you in a state of anxiety. It keeps you in a state of wanting and needing, wanting and grabbing and tension.

Cause until you get that, it's not okay when you say, when you're playing the, it'll be okay when game and you're like, it'll be okay when black. That is saying it's not okay. Now, now I'm saying it's not OK now, and that's what I'm actually saying. It's ok. Ok, now yeah, we're literally on, you know, it's a powerful drug because if you, if things are truly screwed now, it can make you feel okay because you know it'll be okay eventually.

But God forbid you get to eventually look around and the thing that's bigger than you has disappeared. It'll be okay when I've got a song on the radio and, and, and a cool car. And then it's 5,000 people in the audience. And then you get there and you're alone and the dream has disappeared and you have nothing really to live for.

And you look around and you say, okay, well, like it's, if it's the, it'll be okay. When it's when. Yeah. It's when you know. Yeah. And you know, the, so then I've been having this one lately, and this is kind of interesting because I think that fear, shame, worry, a lot of these kind of, the negative emotions are as tightly connected into what the fight or flight center of our brain as is our consciousness and some of our, some of the ideas floating around.

Right. And so then if we get a trigger, it's like then all of a sudden we're, we're willing to contemplate that we're not okay. And, and, and, and then all of a sudden, then if that's the case, and I'm not okay, now I'm not okay tomorrow, and I may never be. Okay, so we do this if, if it's like a proof, right?

Right. Wow. I, I saw Jerry Seinfeld talking about the psych, uh, the, it's a concept in comedy of a, of a proof if this, then that and if that, then that mm-hmm. Uhhuh. Mm-hmm. Now, then what that does is that locks us in the fight or flight worldview. Now then, then inside in here are the warm and fuzzies. Mm-hmm.

So the warm and fuzzies is like, Hey, everything's cool what's happening. Mm-hmm. We overheard, you know, you know, and so the, the, the idea is then that if we have to defrag those triggers and then come into the state of being, and then once you kind get in here, if you can get into here for like two minutes, you can always get back in here.

Mm-hmm. And then this is kind of, and then covid and what's happening with kind of the social norms is everyone is, is trying to hook into our fears or worries or triggers. And then just as soon as they hooked in, then they turn the volume up on that. Mm-hmm. But then now once you know that, once you understand the, the, the framework of just basically the biology of the neurotransmitters in your brain, you can start to control that.

And you're like, oh. It's like you almost start to diagnose this, like, oh, they're trying to hook into my fear. Yeah. But I'm okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I don't, I don't mean any disrespect by the, you know, the, um, the wearing the masks and following the C to C guidelines and stuff. But I mean, like, I feel more anxiety putting on that mask every single day.

I can feel that, like, that stress of doing that might actually make me sick before any virus. Like the mentalness of me going, I'm, I'm in so much fear I'm in, so I'm in a place of danger all the time. Right. It's like making my body feel weak and like I'm susceptible to, you know, I just, I feel a lot more strong, like not doing that.

Okay. My fear with that stuff in regards to the covid tragedy is just like, I don't, I've heard such conflicting things that I don't know what's true. Um, I've heard that the Sweden way of doing things has really been phenomenal, so I'm like, okay, if that's the case, then I'd like to have that direction.

And so knowing that I'm not developed that, that I'm not getting the right antibodies to fight off an infection by, you know, wearing a fucking hazmat suit to the grocery store, um, is that doing a bo my body and therefore culture a disservice? I guess I just don't, you know, there's the information you get off of M S N BBC or C nnn or Fox News, and then there's the information that I get off of conspiracy podcasts and conspiracy YouTube videos, and there's nothing really in between.

So it's really hard to say this is the truth. Well, what do you think that this is what I should do?

But, so this is, I think this, what I'm gonna say is gonna be constructive for you now and in the future. Okay. So then, Now it's interesting to walk through this idea of the masks because masks is somewhat helpful, but it's not enormously helpful, but it's pretty helpful now then initially we were told masks don't do any good.

Remember that? Yeah, I was told I was told that too. Yeah. Yeah. So then what happens is, and and the, the, the storyline on the messaging, it has all of this volatility is back and forth. They're good. They're not necessary. They are necessary. And that's, this is a little bit what the storyline of the media for the last few years has been.

Very extreme yeses and nos. Interesting. Well, I go back to my, my, like when I was told in the nineties that you have to drink six glasses of milk a day. And I go, well, you know, and that's gonna be healthy for your bones. And I go, well, am I being told the right thing about this masks? And if, and if, and if I'm not, I don't really care about, you know, the, the inferior kind of, you know, if, if I'm, if it's gonna be better for society and for my health to not wear 'em.

I'd rather be, I'd rather deal with the person telling me I'm a murderer, but not wearing the mask to the grocery store Personally. I, I don't really mind. It's like, is what it is. You're, you're, everybody's entitled their, their opinions. Yeah. So then, so then what? And then if so, then there's a lot of volatility around those.

The mass topic, number one. Number two, what's gonna happen is if you look at 1973, most of the intellectual ideas in medicine are very different from that. Yeah. So a lot of what? And, and well, a lot of what we currently believe about Covid, we're gonna find most of it's gonna be wrong in some way. It is gonna be massively evolved.

And when we look back at this in 10 years, right? Right. Yes, absolutely. And so then now, and then now, so then what happens is, if I put on, what I will tell you is, is that if I thought that it'd make you feel a little bit more comfortable, I'll put a mask on for you. Mm-hmm. But, and now it's interesting cuz this is almost like artistically.

It's like I'm willing to kind of put on, I'm willing to play a little bit of a role for a minute or two. Yeah. Yeah. See how that goes. And I, but now like, but like I'm playing along and I'm knowing that I'm just putting a mask on to kind of see what happens. Right. But I'm not actually gonna, uh, necessarily let that affect my emotional state, which is then, so then now I'm just kind of journeying into seeing kind of where people are studying scientifically, you know, trying to track what's happening.

But I'm not a, I'm not gonna be an emotional victim. Right. Uhhuh. That's exactly right. Uhhuh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which does affect your immunity, which affects everything. But I guess also to what Martin was saying was that in, and I'm sure you know this, that, that in Sweden, they didn't do the shutdown. They prepared for people who were gonna be most susceptible to dying or getting the most sick, and they kept everything open so that everyone built up is building up antibodies right now and getting, um, immune to this thing so that there won't be a second wave or whatever.

Um, and that over sanitizing, over washing your hands, kills your good bacteria. It makes your body more, you know, all of that stuff. So, and not being outside, not interacting with each other, not shaking hands, not getting the stuff to build up these immunities and make your own body strong, um, can actually make us a lot more susceptible to disease down the road.

Yeah. And so that, I do think that the, that approach is like quite intelligent. And, and then yet. And then yet, but then this is good, a good one, right? It's we're in a, a, a new moment of political correctness and medicine where that's like a somewhat politically incorrect. Yeah, yeah. Right. I'm sitting here listening her say that being like, man, like people are gonna be like the, the, the, you know, kind of like the social justice situation on the internet is gonna be like, you're a murderer for saying that on a podcast.

And I'm just like, but if that's what's true and that's what's real and that's what's right, and then it's like, you know, I'm not personally, like, I think at the beginning I was like, I got asthma, right? So I'm like, at the beginning I'm kind of in fear and I'm Clorox wiping my door handles and wearing, wearing a, you know, a ski thing on my face.

And just like, after a while I'm kind of like, I actually think I'm doing myself and everybody else a disservice, but I, but you know, I just wish I, I guess I just wish I had a resource. I mean, I guess we do, we do right now where we're kinda like talking about further, but like, I wish I knew. Got it. Wish I had knew someone.

I guess what you were saying, wish they had someone I, I hear what you're saying. I guess like if it makes people feel really comfortable now, I guess I'm willing to put on a bandana to not make, you know, the dude at the grocery store next to me have a panic attack. Like if that's gonna be what helps him not panic, like I guess I'll do that.

But at the same time it's a confusing line, you know, where it's like maybe I'm kind of just doing that to socially do the right thing. Mm-hmm. But everybody's just socially doing the right thing. Maybe they're doing the grander kind of public a disservice by not. Doing the right thing for their body.

What do you suggest, doc? What do you suggest us? Like, like are you saying like, I think what I heard you say is, you know, if you're going to the grocery store and it's gonna cause an a, a ruckus that you're not wearing a mask, like wear the mask. Don't let it, don't let it upset me emotionally. I'm not gonna get an anxiety attack over that.

Mm-hmm. But for what's good for me, la all through my life and like building my body and making my own immunity really strong to fight off all different kinds of disease. What do you suggest? Do you think that the, that the mask and the gloves and the over washing and the not talking to anyone and standing far away, is that gonna weaken our bodies over time?

I think our bodies are strong, are strong enough that you're gonna be fine no matter what you do. And so then that's the attitude that I want you to, that I encourage you to be like, I'm gonna be great. I'm there. I was like making Martin pretty nervous. I'm, I'm already there. I'm like, no, she's there. But yeah.

Yeah. But yes, it doesn't make, it doesn't make me nervous. What makes me the most nervous about Covid the whole time from the stock market to human relationships is, is, is far, far, far less the disease. Mm-hmm. And far more the human reaction to the disease. Mm-hmm. Um, so I'm not really afraid of walking into Whole Foods naked, but what I'm afraid of is hu human interactions kind of going down the toilet and all of a sudden you're kind of like, you're socially crucified.

This, and your tribe turns against you, so to speak. You're not right. Are people, there are people who are just like, you know, like, I've been on, I've been on phone calls, you know, where we're like, people are kind of like, Calling other people like murderers for walking around without gloves on. And it's kind of like, well, yeah.

And so, so what happens is, is there, we've gotten a, the whole thing is our, our whole culture got real polarized in the last few years. Yeah. And so then this comes along and then this is just this opportunity. And then you've, you've got a variety of ways to pitch it. Right. And so then it's interesting kind of culturally, like if you look at us, cuz we probably think we, I bet you that we have almost like exactly the same beliefs, right?

Yeah. Politically. I bet, I bet you there's like a 99% overlap. Interesting. Cause I have like the, the people who come to see me all think exactly the same. Yeah, for the most part, except for like a very small cohort, you end up thinking that way later. But so then it's, and but then it's interesting as you watch that, because you've got, and then let's say there's a business narrative, and then there's a, uh, human rights narrative.

Because what happens is on the, the human rights side, there is this really small percentage of people who get really sick. Mm-hmm. And so then, now, now I think Sweden has a rational ability to say, okay, let's, how do we, first of all, we have to take care of them. Nobody's arguing about that. And so then what, what are the resources?

And I bet you if you really dove into that, There's a lot that we could do to try to keep people out of ICUs and hospitals and protect Right. Protect people who are the most disenfranchised. Yeah. And yet I think that we could probably open up the markets way more than we currently are and, and have levels of social distance that, and as we start to track cases, we'll see that, that the levels that we need can be smaller and smaller and smaller until, and, and that, and, and interestingly, that's going to be social as much as anything else.

Sure. Yeah. Like somebody said to me, are you gonna hug me when I could come up to see you? And it's like, I don't know. This was like a few weeks ago. I was like, I don't know. I, I go, it's almost like a social thing. I'm gonna see if people are hugging me, like right now, no one's, you're not gonna go in. I'm not, I'm not touching anyone.

You know what I mean? But then what's gonna happen is, People are gonna start to get more and more comfortable. And then the reality is, is you guys have been socially isolating and I have too. And everyone that I know has been social. Yeah. And so the risk of re-engagement is much lower then I think it's perceived to be.

Got you. Ok. Now then the next thing is, is that there's a lot more that we can do to control than, than people give credit for. Mm-hmm. So like I'm sleeping great, exercising, taking a lot of vitamins, doing a whole bunch of immune support stuff. I'm not doing any of the bad things. Are bad for me, right? Yeah.

Either people are spent quarantine, drinking, you know, bottles and bottles and bottles of wine and like, we haven't been doing that. We've been cooking super, super healthy food, trying our best to not hit the sugar and, and exercise every day. Yeah. Yeah. So then with that in mind, I think that, and, and so then I think we need to lean into re-engagement, lean into, you know, social engagement at, at a little bit of a distance and, and then what that's gonna be a bridge.

It's like this is this concept of a bridge over troubled waters. That's a bridge to just more normal interactions. Yeah. Yeah. I totally, totally agree with that. I also think that there's a really high possibility that Martin and I. May have had coronavirus because I, I really believe that there was an outbreak in Nashville in January.

Oh, what, what symptoms did you get? It was, it was actually like the second week of February, but I'm saying that most of our friends got it in January, but we got, I feel like we got it, but because we had visit, we had been to your clinic prior to that in late December and had gotten nas, and we spent four days there and, um, every single body completely rebooted our systems and our bodies, all the, I mean, the works, I think that it's a possibility that our bodies were so strong that the immune reaction didn't, didn't, um, hurt.

Hurt, didn't cause a lot of pain, like we were able to handle it. Our bodies were so strong. So like sometimes, which I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but like your immune system fighting a disease is what makes you lay in bed and makes what makes you vomit. What makes you. Feel that way. Right.

It's not really the virus, it's your immune system fighting it. But like my body was so strong, I didn't really get terrible symptoms. But the symptoms I did have were Covid, Monty, Monty, uh, we went, we both went to like, kind of an instant care situation, just cause was bad enough and tested for a flu and strep and they were both negative.

And we were both, I found that I was going in there because I was like, I knew that I was gonna need to sing, so I was like, basically like looking for prednisone. You know what I like, I'm gonna go in here and maybe I'll get, maybe I can get some steroids. And now looking back and, and, um, because of my leg break, the, the doctor was basically like, like, you know, I think it's a bad idea.

I don't know if he's right or not. We don't have to get into that, but Oh, he was totally right. But it's so lucky cuz steroids would've been the worst thing for, for that ever. For Covid, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I was like, man, I'm gonna have to sing. And as a singer. You're like little, like trick is like, even, even as a sober guy for 10 years, the trick is still like, you know, you, if you got a cold and you gotta sing through it, you're like, get a little prednisone.

Sure. Steroids. Yeah. You go down off of it, whatever. Maybe you combine that with a Zack and generally you can still perform. And it was like, I'm happy that that wasn't the case. That that wasn't what, but I was kind of laid up probably like super full body fatigue and stuff for three days and, um, and having but no vomiting.

No vomiting, like coughing. And then it was like, there was no congestion but it was like the fatigue felt like, and it was before I went to Europe, I felt like I had been hit with the gnarliest jet lag of all time. And I was like, Martin, whatever's coming for me, what I'm about to get is gonna be so crazy.

And I was about to get on a plane to go to Germany and so, but like, it never really hit me. I just kind of like had a base level of no energy. I had just enough to get on stage, but I never vomited and. I didn't have the flu, I didn't have strep and I didn't have mono, and so my doctor was like, I don't know, like just stays where I'm at with it.

Yeah. Where, where I'm at with it is I think that, you know, if we, the, the stuff that we had done at your clinic was really kind of like, what made it strong there and made it, you know, if it, that's covid, which I'm, I'm, I would say I, my gut instinct tells me 85%. Yes. Then it's like, you know, we are, we are really lucky in that way because our, our immune systems were so primed to battle.

Yeah. It's interesting. We've treated a bunch of people who had pneumonia in January and February. Yeah. Never, I mean, I almost never seen pneumonia in like, you know, 30 year old healthy people. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I saw like eight of 'em and I treated some family members who left right before and everybody was doing great and then they went and saw a bunch of other family members and all the other family members were sick.

And I'm, I'm almost positive with all covid and, and they all were sick for like a month. Right. And these two people that were at my clinic basically were got sick and were sick for one day and had no other symptoms. Yeah. Mine was for three days. And I'm like, you know, I just, I don't know, I have this really strong gut intuition and my intuition is rarely wrong.

And I just, I think that it was, that it was coronavirus and my body because of the treatments we did, was so strong that my symptoms were hardly anything. And, you know, that we were talking about before, cuz it's like,

other than food, if I could have one thing other than food and, well, I would say other than food and exercise, the only other thing that I would want is music. And so it's like we were talking about like, what's gonna happen? How, what, how are you gonna. You're gonna go, you're gonna have to go show, like a thing that says, oh, I got vaccinated on your phone.

Yeah. Get into a venue. Yeah. So, so, so to begin to think about that, but I think that there's a, there's vastly more that we can do to control our health. I understand. And, and, and, and so for example, for like the, the probability that somebody gets sick and dies is orders of magnitude higher if for, for certain conditions.

Like if people have diabetes ass outta control, they're gonna have a much higher probability of problem compared to somebody that doesn't. And so then, then I think there's gonna be a way to have an intelligent opening of society where we're gonna have certain groups where we're just gonna take super good care of them and super support them.

Right. But then if you're doing everything right, and then the reality is is that you probably got it, then you should probably be able to go give concerts and give, do small things. Yeah, do small shows and reengage. Like that's what I'm, we have to, we have to get out there and start to do that. That, yeah, I totally agree with that.

And also like, if, if, if you're looking at, at Sweden who did that, who, like, they prepared for the people that were gonna be mostly affected, but also, like, there's not a lot of sick people there. There's no obesity. People do not eat the way that we do here. So it's like, you know, I don't know that, that, that method would work as well here.

If you're saying like, you know, most of the people that are, that are in, in the most danger are people with like, diabetes, obesity, you know, hor, you know, smoking. Like, they don't do any of that in Sweden. They smoke. I mean, not like Americans.

That's on the line. Yeah. But, but all the other stuff is accurate. But you're right there, there's a lot of things we can, they make up for it with vodka. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of things that we can be doing to, to, uh, make ourselves healthy other than just waiting for a vaccine. I guess my fear is just like that the world will not be normal until there's a vaccine, and when there's a vaccine, you're going to need the vaccine.

Like we were talking about the card to do stuff, to go to school to, and I don't wanna talk, I don't wanna get into like anti-vax talk, but like, you know, like, it's like slippery slope, but it's like, I guess it's like, what, then what's the next year? Then what's, what's 2021 or the beginning of it at least, right.

It's.

That's a good one. I think we're, we're here. Here's the thing. Vaccines take like four or five years, or 10 years or 20 years to get great. Right? Right. Now what's gonna happen is, is we don't know what round two is gonna be like. Okay. But we've had, there's gonna be a way to get through this, and what I'm just standing for is that there's gonna be a logical way that makes some medical sense and some political sense and some business sense.

There's a way to get through this. Mm-hmm. And, and, and, and people, and, and now this is what people do all the time, is that they conflate many possibilities into one possibility. So there's like a curve and there's an infinite number of possibilities. And, and here you have infinite number. And as the, as it goes down to the asymptote, that asymptote reps represents zero.

And what we typically do is we take it to the asymptote and we, and so we create the worst possible thing, but it's not gonna be that. And then there's gonna be more possibility. And so then now, now then, then the sweet spot is then to get into your heart. I'm okay now. And then start to navigate to the future.

Mm-hmm. And then just start to strategically like figure out where you need to, to go, to do, to be in that spot. And then, then the world's coming at you, but then like, get, my attitude right now is to be neutral a little bit to that. It's like, Okay. They want me to wear a mask. Oh, that's fine. Because Right.

I would put this mask on, or if they want me to wear a, a wolf mask, like I would put that on for party. You know what I mean? And so then, so then now I'm, it was kind of like what the conversation, which I'm kind of curious to have with you about what we were talking about. Like anesthesia and music. Yeah.

Yeah. Because what happens is I'm putting that, I'm putting, uh, a, a mask on of a character for a minute, but I'm not really identifying with the character. Like I'm play, I'm willing to play a character a little bit, which is different because that means I'm not wrapped up in the drama. Right. I'm actually like journeying into just being myself and that, and so as a result, whatever drama's going on over there, I'm kind of somewhat neutral to it.

Mm-hmm. Okay. I can do that.

We can do that. Yeah. So let's talk anesthesia in the music business.

But you know, you know what the music does, does need a good anesthesiologist half time, half the time I wish I you have an elephant dark and knock me out. Like when I go walk into a session and that's going a certain way, I'm like, hit me with the dark, also, stand me with the bull dark. And also 90% of people are already asleep.

So Yeah. You knows that that actually is a good one. Maybe there's more in common there. Um, but I, uh, when, when I was, um, so, so I gotta do a shout out, uh, to Bill Malloy is my guitar teacher. Okay, nice. Hey Bill. Yeah. Hey Bill, you do a great job. And so he is, uh, he is, uh, he's the absolutely, totally the greatest.

And so then, um, his wife is named Shannon Brian, and she's a, a medicine doctor. And she was kind of a year ahead of me, and she was the, my mentor when I was in my intern year. And so I was going off to anesthesia, but the, the entire year they tried to convince me to drop out and, uh, move to, to Jamaica and just offer my services to Johnny Cash and just say like, out of respect, I'm gonna take, oh, I'm just here for you.

And they wanted me to quit. And, and we, we, it was, we literally talked about it every day of my residency like that I should, I should probably drop out and just go, because he's be around that much longer. Yeah, just go be with Johnny. Just be with Johnny, obviously. And then interestingly, he had a condition called, um, Shai Drager.

Mm-hmm. Which is his autonomic nervous system, had all of these issues. And interestingly now kind of one of the main things that I do is work with the Autonom autonomic nervous system. Okay. And so the reality is, is I think I actually probably could have helped him at that time, but I had, at that time, I had no idea what was going on.

So I would've been totally useless to him. Wow. Do you think it was affected by Dr. The autonomic is something that can be heavily affected by pills and pharmaceuticals and drugs that kind of the, the way he was self-medicating. It can, but it also can be, uh, affected by things like Lyme disease and other chronic infections.

And it also can be affected by mold. And, and if I had to bet, I would bet more on an in infectious stuff than, than drugs. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Which is interesting And, and interestingly, A lot of times people, this goes to that storyline conversation. Mm-hmm. A lot of times people will, um, take in the storyline, take it to the, take it to the asymptote, take it to, to the, to the worst possible, and then they start to tell themselves the kind of a negative story around it.

Mm-hmm. And my current thinking is, is that we can basically go in and totally rewire the body so that like, you're better than you were before the drug addiction. Shout out to Matt Ell. This is kind of like this cuz I'm having like this big n a d conversation with Matt Ell Yeah. With Matt. Yeah. Yeah. And so who, who I love and I'm, I'm, I cannot wait for the next 25 years of my interaction with him.

And the, the what happens with cerebral physiology and emotions and the mental, emotional, spiritual and, and, and, and, and as, and as he says, the actual jujitsu of just going in there and, and battling your demons. You know what I mean? It's like all of that at the same time. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I'm, um, I have unbridled optimism about the human potential to overcome that.

Right. Oh, I'm, I'm excited to see what you do with Matt. Matt saved my life about 10 years ago now, so Yeah. Isn't that great? Yeah. The best, you know. Yeah. I was rotting from the inside out. That's why I asked the question about Johnny. It's just like that, that, that kind of like, um, indoor in inner to out kind of rot that happens from that sort of thing.

And you've kind of said that like my n a D level's so low. That that's what created, when we did the, um, when we did the blood, uh, the ozone dialysis, the ozone di dialysis, which was incredible how dirty it was. Yeah. It got so incredible and kinda changed the thing, but it was like, how much better does it feel?

How much what, how much of a boost did you get from that? Like, huge. I got a huge boost. My metabolism came back. I started sleeping all the way through the night. Um, the, the, you know, the leaky gut thing I was telling you that I had, um, I started fasting before flights. That was a recommendation that you told me to do.

Yeah. Um, I did that all through Europe. It really wasn't that difficult. Um, that wasn't it cool? It really, really wasn't that difficult. It has helped tremendously. I think that, um, the oz, the Ozone dialysis like was wild, wildly beneficial. I mean, I healed all of that stuff within just a couple weeks of being home.

My hair, my skin, everything. Like, I mean, my facialist thought I was getting Botox from someone else. Oh really? I've never had Botox ever. She was like, your skin is like, are you getting Botox now? And I was like, no, I haven't gotten any Botox. But I mean it really like that with the glutathione, the whole treatment was like just a complete and utter system.

And honestly on an emotional soul level, just coming to that facility and being able to rest. And, um, and, and the staff there and like, I just felt like I was so safe and I just, we just turned off completely and like rebooted our bodies. It was like the best thing I I, I'm gonna do it every year. Biore Reset Medical is a medical practice specializing in integrative therapies and advanced wellness protocols.

At Biore Reset Medical, we treat some of the most challenging to diagnose and difficult to live with ailments that people suffer from today, including Lyme disease, chronic pain, P T D, and mycotoxin illness. Our team has a wealth of experience and advanced integrative strategies to get you to optimum wellness, many of which can be conducted remotely from the comfort of your own home.

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Mm-hmm. If it seems like it's more than you have the bandwidth to do, then you're like, oh, fuck, I don't have the bandwidth to do it. But it's almost like that's what your body's saying, so it just kind of holds onto that stuff. Yeah, and, and then the activation energy to get up here to get that done is too much.

And so then you, you just kinda get stuck, stuck. But once you start a process, then once you restart biological systems, they just start to work. They just start going again. Right. And, and, and so then, then you, it's a, it's really like amazing. It's like I'm continually amazed because like problems that I thought were difficult a couple years ago now I'm kind of like, it is like I'm talking to somebody like, oh, you, oh, you have that?

Oh good. We, I traded that a bunch of times. It's like ozone always makes your skin better. Like, I mean, so that is kinda like, you know, and, and now then it is like this is this kind of cool conversation cuz we were like the, the music producer business and like we were talking about the music. Cuz I'm kind of curious to see what you think about this, Martin, because it's like the in anesthesia, everything that I know is like I do as an anesthesiologist, right?

Right. Everything that I do, I learned in as an anesthesiologist. All the techniques, all the ways that I think, and it's like now I actually have anesthesiologists that are coming here. Training cuz I've been training people That's amazing. And come in and then they just start like looking around and then they just start putting on mat gloves and grabbing syringes.

Let's, we're, we're like a, a tribe, you know? But at the end I, it was a soul killing experience doing that. Right. Because it wasn't what I wanted to do. Right. And it's interesting, it was interesting dealing covid a little bit, but like everything that I do now is 100% derivative of that. And so then it's interesting for me to kind of start to then as I talk to other people who are going through things, that the next step in the journey is usually within the field that you're in.

Right, and so, right. Yeah. Wow. There's something, there's some there. I don't know what this is. There's gotta be a totally fantastic way to reengage with people in a new and unique way, musically. That's not being done right now, but we have You have to gotta you, you have to do it. Yeah. Oh boy. I know. I know for sure.

Like I said it earlier when we were talking earlier that like, I've been a little less traumatized by covid, what it did to me job wise, because it feels like. I maybe had mine the last piece of coal out of that phase of my career. Like songs, great songs were a little harder to pull out of the studio, and at least ones that made me feel like really, really deeply made me feel great.

And the thing that I'm not interested in when you're talking about your kind of like late last days of anesthesiology and kind of like going in and, and, and yes, I'm make another 400 and this is gonna hurt, but I'm gonna do it anyway because this is, thank you. Because this is like what I do and this is how I make money.

So I do think that some days in some shows I was maybe doing it because it's what I do and this is how I've always made money. And this is, I don't know who I am if I don't do this. If you told me you don't make money, You don't write songs anymore. You don't make music anymore. You don't, you can't help other artists anymore.

You're tapped out and you can't play shows anymore. I would kind of look around and say, well then who am I? Because, and a big part of what I've been trying to do spiritually in the last 10 years is like, figure out that separation. So there's like, Martin who does music, and then there's like Martin, you know what I mean?

And so like, what's so exciting about Covid is like the struggle in that 10 years of like, okay, here's Martin that does music. And like he's pretty good at it. And then there's, and then there's Martin here just picking shit off my face. Um, I, I, I liked it there. It, it's like I was maybe not, I was not necessarily hitting a wall before Covid, but I think I was hitting a wall where there was like a massive fear to try something new.

Mm-hmm. Like get in an RV and create. Create music from a different, with a different view. Mm-hmm. Like, or, you know, a different, or, or work in a different area of music where I'm kind of more of an executive producer and not just like hands-on like me and a co-producer staring at the machine for 13 hours.

Mm-hmm. And like, my eyes hurt, my back hurts. And it, and it hurts to sit in there and I'm like, I've built this prison for myself. It's a really nice prison. It's like, you know, but it's kind of like I'm sitting here. So I guess I'm excited to see what that looks like for me. It doesn't look like getting on Instagram live and playing three acoustic songs and answering, answering rabid questions from bands in Jakarta, in Brazil.

Mm-hmm. It's like, that's what it doesn't look like. And I tried it and it was really nice and it went, felt like a really nice way to get through the first week of quarantine. But it was like, cool, that pony like. Everybody did it. Everybody's sick of it. Less people are tuning in. Cool. What's next? Um, I think the idea of the one that really excited me is I'm working with this band in, um, Germany, and they're doing a tour like in two weeks, like so soon.

Right. But they're doing it at movie theaters. Okay. Um, drive-in movie theaters, like how they've been doing churches in the south. Right? Oh, so they're doing drive-in movie theaters and their front of house engineer is, is, is pumping the sound through everybody's stereo and everybody's turning it on, opening the sunroofs and putting the hands up.

And like, you know, he, I was talking, I was talking to Singer and he's basically a, a band's called Revolver Held. I was talking to the singer on a, on a, on a Zoom call and, and you know, he's just basically like, I don't know what to expect. And, um, and I don't know, maybe it'll be weird, like we're gonna be staring at a bunch of windshields, but I guess like that is a cr first step to performance.

Um, and to perform in the new kind of world. Personally, I would love to see it where, you know, everything's weird. You go to the gym and the ones that are open, there's like, like caution tape on every third, you know, every two, two treadmills. Then there's another one, two treadmills. It kind of feels like we're living in Mad Max, like it's like, You know, we drove through upstate New York and it's just the way it feels driving through the tolls and stuff, it's like very mad Max.

And so it's like, I don't know that like a Mad Max approach to a show where everybody's kind of like, you know, you let in 25% of the people and they're all wearing masks and totally scared of each other, sort of defeats the purpose. The whole point of music is letting go. The whole point of music is getting outside yourself like a drug, experiencing something that's bigger than you.

You saying, this show is bigger than me and I'm part of this energy and I'm tapped into it, and I can truly let go of the things that hurt and experience joy because I'm not afraid anymore. I'm singing along and I'm part of something and I'm not alone. And it's like, I think it feels very alone to do online broadcast tours.

You know, like streaming Facebook streamed. So alcohol sponsored, you know, and I'm doing it. I'm doing it because it's like everybody's trying and everybody's finding, everybody's experimenting, everybody's seeing what's next. You know, it's like I've got something coming up like mid-March where I'm doing some stream sponsored stream and I'll play the songs and I'll figure it out.

Cause it's just like part of the journey. But I don't think that that's necessarily the answer. And I don't know if they'll drive in movie theaters. I think they've all been torn down half of them. So it's like there's so few that, I don't know that that's the answer either. Um, there are a lot of churches in the south, like the big ones that have set up stages.

They don't have to be drive in movie theaters, but they've set up stages, they've put up huge sound systems and people are driving in, people driving their cars. But the other thing is too, is that like, I think maybe the number one biggest money making machine in. Um, entertainment is sports. So if sports are able to go through, I think that the music, the music industry will follow suit.

If they're allowed to have gatherings at all, then, then the music business will too. And what my agents are doing is they're rebooking every as if 2020 didn't happen and 2021 is just literally everyone's on the same lineups at the same time in 2021. And I think that people will fight for that, fight for parts.

And if they do that, then will suit. Cause you were gonna go on tour with Luke Bryan, Luke Bryan in August. Yeah. Which hasn't technically been canceled yet, but, um, it's unlikely. That will happen in August, because I mean, he's going, he's doing, he does arenas, sports arenas, and, um, currently, you know, we're not allowed to gather over, you know, there's a gathering ban that's 23,000.

There's another, there, there's another alternative where he could do like 3000 seater, um, um, theaters and do multiple, and do multiple nights. Um, there, there's that option, but again, it will just depend on state to state. And I think that's really, really difficult. I mean, I think people, I think that people like not really used to perform.

Free in some way. You can see full shows on YouTube. You can broadcast Coachella from your home. You put it on the wide screen, you play through your surround sound. But I think what is missing about that, and I do think that there will be high per high performance value. Like you go to a sound stage and you put on a performance and you release that in this next year because you're not gonna have the ability to perform and it's gonna drive streams.

I just don't think that there's a way to monetize it. So I don't yet know how, how monetize the thing, because people are streaming Coachella, which is like sales out day one for free. They're streaming Bonnaroo and they're streaming, you know? But you still don't get that feeling, feel like, Matt, you're a concertgoer.

Like you love shows and you love music. It's the energy and it's like we just don't get that through the computer screen when you're, you know, when you drive up, you've got your ticket, you're gonna see your favorite band. Okay, but get this one. This is, no, no, this is a fact. This is a, this is a fact. What I'm about to say.

Okay. On the other side of this, people are gonna be 10 times more likely to want that, to want that connection, to want to sing along. Yeah, I agree. Cause they've been missing it so much and it's gonna be like, as great as it is to sing along, to buy my own drinks, it's gonna be like 10 times greater when it's like you haven't been able to do that for like a year.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean we've been, I totally agree. I think that like we're making a Christmas record right now and, um, People, hopefully by Christmas will be able to like, do the shows that we plan to do. But I mean, I think especially around the holiday season, people will be extremely emotional by then. And like, really, by the time you get to a show, by the time you get to see your favorite band, by the time you get to hear one of your favorite songs in a room with, you know, a bunch of strangers, I think that's gonna feel so euphoric that, um, you know, maybe it's like you don't know a good thing until it's gone, until you can't get it.

Then when you finally get it back, it's like, whoa. You know, I have a positive outlook on that when it comes back. And I do think it'll be back in a year from now, but probably not the fall. And, and what, and you know, it's been interesting for me, and this is maybe just a little window, which will be useful for you to hear.

Mm-hmm. When I first started, the first week I opened, I had, and it was like people with real problems. Do you know what I mean? PTSD and pain and trauma. But I would have like two people a day. And so then next week, every week it doubled. And so then, and then this last week, I would, people were just coming in and we were doing the stuff they were doing, and it was like totally normal.

It felt, it felt very normal. That's cool. It was a, it was amazing feeling. And then it just made me feel like, okay, everything is okay, and now we're just kind of pushing this vibe, this be okay. And it's just supporting and helping people with health and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And I think that it is just gonna take a little further time when we're talking about 3000 and 30,000.

Yes. Yes. But, but it's going to rapidly get there. I do. I believe that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm thinking. Normally I don't do it. I'm thinking about doing some 3000 person shows myself. I wish you would, I wish you would just be the one that would start the open the flood game. I mean, I, I've like, I've heard the bands recordings.

Like we said, we set it up with Sean in la I've heard it. I've got, it's like, come on, you're ready. Shout out to Ben Greenfeld and shout out to Sean. Sean, yeah. And Sean Hurley. Sean Hurley. I, uh, so we did Sean, uh, basically, uh, Martin for people handpicked a t uh, a, a tactical team of people to make, uh, me and Ben, Ben sound better than we are.

And it was so fantastic, and it was like the greatest day of my life up until now, and it was, right now, I'm still talking on Zoom. Until now. Until now. Now it's better. We surpassed that. But it was, it was, it was so great. It was so great, man. Being in the studio, there's a feeling. Yeah, there's a feeling about it.

You really feel you're, it feels really real. No matter how many times you do it. It's like, wow, okay. We're in, we're in the kitchen. We're cooking it up. Yeah, just like being in the kitchen too is crazy. There's, you know, there's a whole bunch of pianos and organs and drums and 85 guitars. It was just like, yeah.

Different cooking equipment, same space. Unlimited options. What? Unlimited, unlimited options can make as much sound. Unlimited options. I know, I, I, so we're, we're gonna, our plan is going to, is to go back to Sean and record, uh, record the summer. What song are you thinking about? So you guys have a cut list, like a little punch list.

Okay. So then here's the thing that is so hilarious because I'm sitting thinking the way that I think. So I'm thinking, you know, my heroes have always been cowboys. I've got my Will Nelson tshirt. Yeah, I know. I'm thinking Pancho and Lefty. I'm thinking I'm just kind of going through the greatest hits of Willie Nelson and people.

And then I go ask Ben, I go, what do you think we should record? He goes, let's just ask our fans and see what they say. And then we'll play whatever songs they wanna play. And so then I told, um, I told somebody and then they say, well, you should just ask. Tell me whatever you want. And then I'll vote for that, and then we'll sing those songs.

Yeah, it's gonna be great either way. It's gonna be great either way. Either way. And you're gonna be picking either way. Either way. You've got the way. Yeah. Either way. You got the control. I like the idea of doing sort of like a, you know that, that sort of Texas, California cowboy, um, kind of old school. So do you know Jerry Jeff Walker?

Huh? Do you know Jerry? Jeff Walker? No. I don't know Jerry. Jeff Walker. He wrote, he wrote the song, Mr. Bojangles. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I know that's song. Yeah, I know Mr. Bojangles. Yeah, of course. There's a great story about that song. J He, Jerry, Jeff met the right woman. At the right place at the wrong time. And her husband, the bartender, called the cops and sent him to the parish jail where he met Mr.

Bojangles. But he's got all got,

so he's got all of this Texas Hill country, you know, songs, uh, like that's a song. London Homesick Blues Leaving Texas, uh, gypsy Song Man La Freeway. Um, I, I felt like I was, I my, and when I was a kid, my dad would put Jerry Jeff Walker in, in a little cassette tape thing and a old Ford 1973 truck that we had.

And then we just drive up into the hills in old, old dirt roads and go backpacking. And it was like, it was, uh, and in my imagination, I grew up with the, the imagery of, of kind of the Texas Willie Nelson's country sound. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh man. Yeah. It's, it's definitely, we went to, uh, the Country Music Hall of Fame.

His dad came up during, um, during Thanksgiving and he really wanted to go to the museum. So we went down there and it's actually really good. I, I went like, the first time I moved to Nashville, and I haven't been back since. But, um, there's this huge new addition and exhibit to, to, uh, the Outlaws, which Willie and Waylon and, and, um, Chris Christofferson and um, and it was like, man, they were just so ahead of their time and they were such rebels and they just completely brought in this, this sub genre of music that's like, Timeless, you know, timeless.

You go to Willie Nelson show and there's people from all ages singing the same song. Um, it's like, man, if I can make music like that, I think whatever you do, you gotta stick the landing. So you gotta like really commit to a certain flavor for the next of the lipi and the first set, the next set of songs.

Cuz it's like, you know, you just say like, we're gonna do this flavor. And then, you know, the next time you go in you maybe do a different, slightly different flavor. You know, like, so if you were gonna go outlaw cowboy, you know, you stick it, you know, like you go, you could pick five. And it's like that when you do steel guitar it and you really find the, you really find the sound and really stick to the right.

That kind of branding of that. Exactly. Somebody like cowboy guitar tones that are like this so good. Do you, you remember that song, uh, that, you know, the, the, I think. That song, I was the highway man along the coach roads. I did ride. Yeah. I don't, I don't even know if I know of a better song. And the way that Johnny finishes that, like I, he flies a starship across the universe and he may come back as a single drop of rain.

I mean, it's, it, it's staggering because it, it, it, it has in the imagination. These guys are outlaws, they made their money by basically robbing people and they're criminals. And yet they're, they're somehow kind of spiritual like guides, spiritual outlaw guides. Yeah. Yeah. There's spiritual gods. Yes. And, and then Johnny and yeah, Johnny's kinda, and Johnny is like, like taking it, it's become so transcendent when he's just gonna fly a starship across the universe as an outlaw and then, and then like transcendent come back as peace.

Which is kind of what Johnny did in his life. It is, yeah. To me in a way, because he was like so young and outta control and I was like, I remember these stories, uh, of, of, um, of his wife kind of feeling so overwhelmed by like, what, but how, how intense that was. And then yet who he ended up Was this like real spiritual?

Yes. Extremely connected, kinda like person. Mm-hmm. The last record that he made was so, I don't think anyone knew that one was coming like that. I mean, the videos that he had with them, um, there was this beautiful kind of eerie black and white feel to them that was so raw. It was like the wisdom of this old man and what he's seen and what he is been through and, and the poetry that came out of that record was so awe inspiring.

It was incredible to me. Rick Rubin. Is I don't, I just, the greatest, like that whole everything about greatest Every, everything about what he did and, and how, how those stories came together. I just relist, I just re-listened the other night to the VH1 storytellers Yeah. Of Johnny and, and Willie. Have you, have you listened to that one?

No. No. That's a gift for you. Do you, do you remember the song that, on that record, um, on the last Johnny Record that he, the nine inch nail song that he redid heard, heard. It's the saddest video I've ever seen affected me so deeply. So good. The video, the video was so sad cuz it just sh it's so knowing, it's so self-knowing and it's kind of like, well, so then that's an interesting one.

Maybe this is our final topic and we kind of dance through this and see what you think, but it's like, So I hurt myself today to see if I still feel Mm. Right. And so then like it's interesting cause with like drug addiction and stuff and anesthesia is like the um, it's super, it's super rampant and some drugs turn out to probably be not that bad for you and potentially have some good things.

And narcotics are not one of those drug categories. Like narcotics are just all bad all the time, which is interesting. Um, and so and so I love that that song is about heroin addiction cuz basically everybody that I like was addicted to heroin at some point. Uhhuh. Yeah, it's interesting. Yes, modern, modern.

Now the most popular, the most popular music now is kind of really similar, just the synthetic versions of those drugs. You know, it's the Xanax, right, right. Like, you know, the rap that kind of like, you know, like hiphop and rap music that's really, is kind of glorifies the, the, the, the sort of coine syrup and the um, and the Xanax use.

And like a lot of these guys, I mean, a lot of these guys are dropping, but for sure it's like, there's not like a po there's not a positive for sure. You know, like I was, I was pretty heavily addicted to Xanax for, I mean like five, six years, you know, like 14 in 12 Xanax bars a day. And it's just like, for me, I came out of that fog like for sure, like, So grateful.

It hurt so bad. Coming outta the fog was, the reentry period was so painful because the world hurts. You know, like the air felt like, I I, it, it affected my sense of smell of my, the insides of my body so much that everything smelled like Lysol for six months. Um, you, you, you know, the, the world was painful.

I, I, I, I played a show, day one, you know, I threw out all the meds and I played a show, day one and everything. Sound, I had never, never performed the songs without pills in me. So it was like, everything sounded terrible. There was no low end. It was like, I couldn't feel this. We were on a concrete stage. I couldn't feel, I, I was like, the world hurt.

And so, but it was interesting, the farther out way I, I got from, from being on Xanax every day. The greens get greener, the blues get bluer, and the world starts to not hurt. Um, And it actually starts to feel great. It's just, it takes work. It just takes a lot of work to, to appreciate and to love because you need to feel the pain and you don't want to, you gotta feel the dark moments and you gotta feel the pain in order to see that the greens are greener.

Cuz the blacks are also blacker, you know, like the dark days are way darker. You know what I mean? And it's, um, I know, I know for me that like, that sort of sedated state, you are less afraid. So I was less afraid to put myself out there and fail. I had this blog where I was like kind of making an asshole outta myself and I was like writing music and kind of like that, that I like maybe wasn't as getting that great, but like, I was so not afraid of failure because I felt like I was in a cushy onesie all the time.

Like kind of lit. But it was like everything sort of felt okay. You know what I mean? But achieving that same feeling without the assistance from the narcotics. Like it's real, and it's actually better for me. Like, you know, the, the number one thing with people who are kind of like addicted to drugs and they're like scared to not take them is, is like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to write a good song.

Um, but you'll certainly know, you'll certainly have better judgment over what's good and what's not, because you'll have such better judgment when you're kind of like lit on narcotics. Everything sounds good. You're just like, this is freaking dope. You know this, I'm making something that's great. But then you come out of the haze and you're like, maybe that's not so good.

Um, you, you have 100% clarity over what is good and what's not. But it, but it's painful. The days where you don't write a good song, you're like, I'm kind of, I'm a piece of shit. I'm, I'm not, I'm, I'm not. Um, ever gonna achieve anything? Great. I've lo I've certainly written my last great song and I'm gonna have to move back in, you know, and live on my dad's couch and like get a new career.

And like everything is so fucked. And like I, I, the fraud police are on their way. The fraud, the fraud police puts on their hazmat suits comes and they take my console and all my guitars and sits away and they say like, you've been a fake this whole time and we're taking your shit. Um, oh, that's imposter syndrome.

That's what we were, yeah, I'm an imposter imposter. So then, oh, so then, uh, I did a, I did media training today. How? Yeah. It was amazing. And so then the guy told me, he goes, imposter syndrome is one of the most common things in the world. Yeah, tell me more. You're famous or you, you're just whoever you're, you.

I'm me. But you get up and then you start to tell yourself, oh fuck, who the fuck am I, I don't even know what I'm doing. What, what, what am I doing? And so then, um, he goes, so what you have to do is he goes, that's imposter syndrome. Everybody feels like they're an imposter at one time or another. So you start to do self-talk.

Like, let's say I'm getting ready for the podcast, but I'm just waiting for you to come on. I don't have a problem with salt imposter syndrome. But then you, you start to just re you remember and recite all the positive things that you've done and then you go, oh, I actually am pretty good. Oh, I'm awesome.

I'm pretty decent. And I belong here. I belong here. Well, I did before. That's funny. It's funny that you say that because one of the most asked questions that, that I get in interviews is, Particularly with our last song, um, that was really successful. We got asked all the time, do you just pinch yourself?

You just wake up and, and you just, what do you think, what is it like being on tour with Carrie? Do you just pinch yourself every day? And Carrie Underwood and I, I finally started singing interviews. No, I don't, I don't pinch myself. I know exactly what it took to get here, and I, I like, am I grateful? Yes.

Am I excited? Yes. But no, I don't wake up. I didn't win American Idol or like wake up here one day going, oh God, like I, I, I don't know any, like this took years of dedication and hard work and sacrifice and making the right choices, making a lot of wrong choices. Like I don't pinch myself, you know, it's like I don't feel like an imposter in that, in that regard.

I, um, I, I tell myself that all the time. Like, no, I know exactly how I got here and I. Have other things I would wanna do too. You know, I guess the thing about imposter syndrome that's been always so interesting at me that with me is that is specifically when I, when I have a big artist coming in and we're gonna write a song.

Mm-hmm. And like I refer overnight, I forget how to write songs. I do that too overnight. I forget how tonight write songs for sure. And I'm like, the fraud police are coming. I'm an imposter. Like they're gonna come. And I'm like, you got no idea. Yeah. Just like people are making fake money, like I've been making fake music and like, you guys are all just dumb.

And it was all terrible the whole time. And so like I Trick Checked again. Yeah. I trick them again. And I don't, and it was like, the biggest thing was that what felt so good was like I, every time I wrote a song, Like that did okay. It was like I tricked everybody. Like I can't believe I got away with it.

Like I tricked him. Like this is, I actually have no idea what I'm doing. I don't know how to produce records and I don't really know how to write songs, but I just like, I guess I did it enough that finally you were tricked this guy. But the thing is like, but like it, like knowing the doctors feel the same way.

You're about to go, you're about to go through surgery. Like I'm about to go get my, my leg cut open, you know, three months ago to get a huge nail put in my, you know, tib and that doctor was probably in the bathroom before going overnight. Pump him surgery. Yeah. I forgot how to fix this guy's leg. I've got no clue how to do it.

And I'm just like, I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse, but like it's for sure. Ok, so tag me in on this one. Okay. You're tagged. You're tagged. So me, we did, me and Barb did this three year doctorate of medical Qigong. Yeah. Program. And so we didn't have this term, this media guy just told this to me today.

And, um, just for, uh, the appropriate shout out, uh, his name is Dave Azi. Dave Azir, super, super, super great. So, um, our Qigong teacher, whose name is Jerry Allen Johnson, who's like the super famous guy, he told this story and this was one of my favorite stories of all time, and it was of the most famous Qigong master in the entire, in this entire region of China.

And what happened was, is that it was, it was a, a huge ceremony to bless, like a temple or whatever was going on there. And everyone for hundreds of miles around had come and then he was there to do the blessing and then make it perfect and then everything was gonna be okay. And it's kind of like the kind of like part of our conversation we've we always talking about maybe it could be okay tomorrow.

So yeah, maybe if he does a good job then it's gonna be okay. Right. Uhhuh. So he comes out and then this is such a great, and this was his way of dealing with imposter syndrome cuz he got imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. So he goes up and then he stands up in front of me. He goes, he goes, I don't know anything about Qigong.

Qigong doesn't work. It's all poppycock. This was the word that he was. And so he says this in front of like thousands of people. They're all standing around. He's like, it doesn't work. It's just, you guys think that it does, it works, but it even, even if you think it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I don't know anything.

I don't even know who I am. So he kind of goes through this whole thing and then he just kind of stands. And then he like goes into his meditation and then he proceeds to do like the best Qigong healing that anyone had ever seen, like that side of Shanghai. And so the idea was, is that he got it all off of his chest and then he went and did it.

And so then we're all running around with a little bit of the story. Like, I dunno, how the right song Yeah. Mm-hmm. In our head, right? And so then now it, it might be to say it, it might be to do ketamine journey and just unwind that trigger. It might be to unwind it in some other way, but the, but then the, the, my defining reality is that you're an amazing songwriter and even if you forget today, you're gonna remember tomorrow first thing.

And probably tomorrow's gonna even better. I think it, that's how you, I mean, a hundred percent agree, but I also think it applies to something as simple as I love my life. Yeah. Yeah. Because I forget more important. And so I gotta, I gotta get it all out. And then I'm like, I love my life. I love my life. You know, it's because I forget that I love my life because I think that whatever small, painful thing I'm going through is,

is, is, is, is the end of the world. And I can only feel the negative. And so, like, something that's so important is to remind, like, just a gentle reminder, I love my life. Mm-hmm. It's my life, you know what I mean? And it's like nothing changed. The situation is the same. The stuff that I'm grateful for is exactly the same stuff that makes me crazy.

It's like, if you look at the stuff that's on the list of things that cause me anxiety, and pain and struggle, it's the exact list. That's my gratitude list. It's the same list. It's just, it's just, it's true. It's just, am I gonna make a conscious choice today? Am I gonna make a choice today? To what perspective am I gonna, am I gonna look at it from, and it's like obviously old, the oldest, like, you know, for what, what's, you know, the new set of glasses, whatever.

Kind of like, well, how am I gonna look at it today? Am I gonna look at it like I hate my life, or am I gonna look like I love my life? You know what I mean? And even with the covid, like you circle back to that and it's just like, I love my life and it's gonna be okay. So let's just see where the journey takes me, because I'm just gonna remain curious and I'm not gonna look at world like I'm a victim.

I'm gonna look at the world like I'm curious and I'm willing to learn and I'm willing to learn what's next. And I'd love to be a part of it, but I'm, but let's see. I'm just gonna see, and I'm just gonna like strap in and like seatbelt and like, as long as I know that like I love my life, everything's gonna be okay.

You know, I can think like, man, like I think I'm an imposter with music and stuff like that. And that's fine. Remind myself like once the song's done, oh yeah, you got him. Or, or like, oh wait, you did know how to write that thing. You just weren't sure which this one was gonna be. It's just gonna be a new journey.

Maybe that's part, maybe I gotta tell myself I don't know how to write a song to dare myself, to prove me, me wrong. Or to prove the other person in the room wrong. Something that's kind of like interesting in psychology for me with songwriting is my best songs are always the first time I write with somebody.

If I've never written with them before. It's like I'm trying to prove 'em something. So there's something with the like imposter syndrome that makes you great. Mm-hmm. You know, that makes you great. But it's also, you know, if I could keep that in music and have the imposter syndrome not also apply to like, what am I doing here?

This world sucks. I'm sad. And instead I like, you know, I could see it as like, yeah, this is like a blip, but I love my life and I love everybody in it and it's okay. And like I, you know that that's the battle. That's the battle. We're human beings and we're gonna battle with that. Both those, both of those things.

The, you know, the point is to try to improve, but you're never gonna be perfect. You're never gonna get there where you never feel that way. We all, I, I mean, I feel out of body sometimes when I'm on stage, but, Overall, I mean, I, I look back and I go, I know exactly how, what it took to get here, what it's gonna take to get to other places too.

You know, I, I read a, um, little thing this morning on, uh, the, there's an article, I'll send it to you on The Beatles. And apparently they just were work. They, they had a work ethic of like, songwriting. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I thought of you guys when I, when I was reading, I, I didn't know I was gonna talk to you today.

Yeah. But I looked at it and I just was like, oh God, that's gotta be, so I just said it is. Well, I just, I was, I was thinking it was gonna be interesting. The songwriting is interesting because right now it's all over zoom of all over the computer, right? Mm-hmm. And there's a magic, there's a real magic about getting, uh, three people in a room, four people in a room, two.

And you start playing music and you start exchanging lyrics and you go through maybe a therapy session, someone pulls something out of you or someone's crying or, or maybe not, or maybe it takes 20 minutes to write the song, but it's like doing that over zoom. In my experience so far, like, you know, I see my friends through the screen, but like that energy is gone.

Mm-hmm. You know, so it's been interesting. I do think that the music will get there, but everyone is going like, oh God, this is not what we're used to. And like it's, it's interesting because I wonder how number one, it will allow people to write, to do writing sessions from, someone can be in the Redwoods in California and someone can be here.

And whereas before Nashville's a very much like, no, you have to live in Nashville and you, you need to be in these writing rooms in person. But like, no one would've ever done this experiment before. Where it's like, okay, every songwriter in Nashville is gonna write over, over Zoom for two months and see if we can get, you know, see what we can get.

Um, so I know what I'm gonna have you guys come to Northern California. I'm gonna lock you in a room and put, uh, n a divs that you and glutathione and vitamin C and we'll see what comes outta that. And we'll write songs like that. Yeah. See if you, if you come with some hot stuff. But we're gonna, we've been planning to, we're gonna, we're gonna travel in the summer and, um, and write on the road.

And it's gonna be, it's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be epic. Okay, well, I hope that, that, uh, that, uh, vehicle that you're strapped into comes to Northern California. It's, it'll, it'll, it'll come. We wouldn't miss you and then, you know, know this one. You know what, so this is a good one, and maybe we've all finished with this, but this, I'm telling you this one is, is.

Interesting. I like, I remember

my, my father was a psychologist, mine too. And I, the reason I went into anesthesiology was because there was such a profound feeling that like psychology doesn't work and my, that I, I had growing up and I remember like, I remember like being in high school listening to like rock and Roll Suicide by David Bowie.

Right. And I remember feeling just gut wrenchingly horrible for that whole sort of motif. And it seemed so hopeless that I would ever like get better. Mm-hmm. And then it was interesting cuz I went, then I went into anesthesiology and then in, and I did it because I thought it would seem like everybody was very calm.

And it just turned out that that was like a coping mechanism to appear calm, but they were all like gut wrenching, feeling horrible inside. And so then I was like, oh my God, I just got outta the frying pan into the fire. I should have gone into psychology would've been way better. And interestingly, kind of like what I do now is psychology.

Psychology. Yeah. It sure is. Yes. I'm, I'm basically a psychologist and it's interesting cuz I feel almost totally ecstatic about 97% of the time. And I feel I wanna just give you an enormous amount of hope. And because what happens is, as I'm, I'm just talking psychologically or in some weird way about life artist more artistically, but what I'm noticing is, is that these themes that we're talking about, we're gonna heal all of these themes.

And we're gonna get new themes. And then just like, you know how we were talking about the inflammation in the body? Mm-hmm. And then we do some treatments and next thing you know, the inflammation's down and down and down and down. It's like the, the Russian dolls. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Going in, it's the same thing with the psyche and then building your construct of identity and consciousness and community and, and, and, and, and your sense of who you are.

But my sense is, is that what happens with, and we've kind of talked around some of the stuff with, um, with some of our conversations, I have infinite more hope now than I even had four or five years ago. Wow. And so, and I, and, and so my sense is, is that you're, it is gonna be, it is great now. And it's just gonna keep getting greater and greater.

And right now we're on a bridge over troubled waters, which is partly covid, which is partly like, you know, everything. Um, and it is like, I, I, it's like I, I fell in love with Naomi when I saw the Led Zeppelin t-shirt and I fell in love with you when I saw the Paul Simon tattoo. You know what I mean? You know, and, but, but it's kinda like, um, but know that there's, and I'm saying this kind of as a doctor, my, my experience right now is that, that the potential to totally overcome feeling bad is infinitely more than what I thought because I grew up in a world with, without any of the skills and things that I do, right?

Yeah. And so then basically as soon as you began to realize that there's that much hope, It, it just totally changes everything. And then part of it is just like for me, I, every week I'll have four or five people that are kind of hopeless cases and, and, and, but they heard me and then they'll be like, oh, I, I have what you were talking about.

And so then sure enough, then they start to, the next thing you know, I'm, and I'll, and often, and so then listen to this one, Martin. This is crazy. Every morning I do a couple calls, right? And then every morning, about two or three days a week for the first 10 or 15 minutes of the call, some of these calls are so crazy that I just, I'm going like, holy fuck God, I can't imagine.

Oh my God. And so kinda like going like that. It's like, what the hell? How, how did they do that to you? And so then, and, and then. What will happen is it will come, it will come across upon me like, oh, oh, that's what this is. I'll figure it out. Yeah. And then I'll be like, oh. And, and so then about I'll, I'll be, I'll start, I'll go.

And so next thing you know, it's kind of like, okay. And so then as a, as a friend and as a doctor, what I want you to know is I look at you guys, I'm like, oh my God, I've totally got these guys. They're gonna feel amazing. You're gonna be super chipper. It's gonna be great. And, and so then just, uh, and just, and so then just enjoy the other side of the hill cuz it's gonna be perfect.

Oh man. Oh man. I, I feel that too. I feel like with you on the, with you on the boat, we definitely have, have a, a bridge over trouble. Water. I love it. It's been so good to talk to you. I, I feel so calm and like, taken care of and like we're gonna get through this and um, we always have somebody. Over trouble.

Water. Ill,

ill ease mind God, I love you guys singing. I needed to go higher there. He got me the delay is. The delay is pretty bad on sometimes. Oh really? It doesn't matter. A horrible delay. I'm still singing with you and that's still, that's still better. It's still better. I'd rather be singing to you to the 30,000 people on that wall.

Yeah, yeah. And painting. Painting eyes on the wall. Well, I love you guys. It's really good time. Love having us on your podcast. Get to California. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's gonna be great. It's an honor for us. It's gonna be amazing.

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