Part 1: Dr. Cook chats with Dr. Matthew Dawson, an emergency medicine physician in Lexington, Kentucky

 Uh, multiple respiratory complaint patients today. Um, you just kind of have to assume everyone has SARS COV two that you see that has a cough or anything. So with protocols have changed where limiting visitors coming back, everyone gets a mask when they come in. You're listening to the Bio Reset Medical Podcast with Dr.

Matthew Cook. Dr. Cook, thanks so much for joining us on the Wild Health Podcast. I'm really excited to talk to you today. I apologize if we get interrupted. Um, I got called in and I'm actually working in er shift right now, so there's a chance we may get interrupted in here, but, um, but I'm excited to talk to you, so I don't want to delay it.

Oh, well I'm delighted to talk to you. Um, so tell me about the risk for EO doctors. Like that must be kind of a crazy situation. Yeah, I mean this is certainly a high risk, um, situation. I've had, uh, multiple respiratory complaint patients today. Um, you just kind of have to assume everyone has SARS COV two that you see that has a cough or anything.

So with the protocols have changed where limiting visitors coming back, everyone gets a mask when they come in. The providers were actually really low on P P E. Um, we're given one mask per shift, which is just insane, but. We're just washing our hands a lot, trying to stay as far away from everyone as we can and only really do necessary physical exam and procedures.

And it's just, it's really kind of a surreal situation. What, what, um, what are you using in terms of what kind of mask? Do you have a, do you have a special mask or are you just a surgical mask? So we do have N 90 fives. Um, the problem is there's so few of those that we're actually limiting those to when we really are gonna be exposed in intubation or someone who definitely has a cough and other symptoms.

So, yeah, I mean, sometimes we're using just surgical masks, which are not gonna be good enough technically, but it's better than nothing. Um, so it's, I I didn't think we'd ever get to this point in the us but, um, that's where we are. It's like a wartime scenario. And do you guys have gowns and stuff like that or?

Yeah, we do. Just running around on scrubs. Okay. No, we, we do have gowns and um, I mean, even with the N 90 fives the other day, we had one, um, and uh, they gave me a small, and that's all they had. And we had to get a medium from somewhere else because a small is obviously not gonna not gonna work. So another hospital sent a medium.

So it's just, yeah, I mean, We could go on and on, but I mean, I'm, I'm hopeful that, uh, someone is solving that situation, so, So it's a great start to the podcast because it demonstrates, you know, the, the state of the state of America because like in my clinic, I can't even get an N 95 mask. And so we've been looking at like getting sort of non-certified N 95 masks from like that would be used.

They're not certified for. A clinic, but they'd be certified for construction use. And we've been looking at getting match, uh, masks from China. And so it's like a great example that's, it's like a, we're almost like in a wartime state in terms of either at an emergency room or at a clinic or probably throughout the hospital these days.

Um, yeah, I mean, we're having to kind of improvise and that's one of the reasons why I was so excited to talk to you because. Although there are no FDA approved treatments for SARS COV two right now, um, there are things that people are doing and you are brilliant, you're creative, you're usually on the cutting edge of things.

And I was talking to you the other day about some things you're doing and, and one thing that really jumped out in my mind, I know you're probably doing quite a few things, but um, Is, uh, ozone. I, I really know very little about this, but we're getting a lot of questions about it. Um, I talked to a dentist the other day who was using this in their water, ozonated water for cooling the instruments to decrease, spread from the aerosolized particles when you're cleaning a mouth and it's come up more and more.

And, um, I've been to your clinic. I've seen you use ozone. I just wanted to get. Your experience with it. Um, I guess the first thing I'll just ask you is where did you first hear about this? How did you become interested in ozone? You know, I, I, uh, I think I was at a functional medicine meeting and, and some people were, were talking about it and the people who were talking about it were people who were doing, taking care of a lot of patients with Lyme disease.

And one of the interesting things about Lyme disease is most people have a component of a viral illness. And so a lot of people, they might, the, the classic bacteria that causes Lyme disease is called Borrelia. Uh, and then there are a whole bunch of co-infections. Maybe two of the most common are Babesia and Bartonella.

But, um, but then a lot of people can also have chronic. Epstein Barr or C M V or some herpes viruses. And so, uh, uh, and in general, what I would say is, uh, patients with complex chronic illness often have a viral component. And, uh, uh, clinically, uh, doctors have found over the years that, uh, ozone, which can be used in a variety of different ways.

Has antiviral effects. And so it, we, we've started including, including it in our stack of therapies that we offer, uh, for, for patients who are, who are dealing with chronic viral infections. And I almost think of this as analogous. Two, uh, patients with complex illness because the, the patients who are the, uh, the sickest and who do the worst with, uh, covid are typically patients who have a number of conditions going on.

Uh, often they have some underlying stealth infections. Um, uh, and, and I think, uh, that that places them at a, a higher, uh, sus it's my suspicion that they have underlying stealth infections and that this could be the reason why, uh, some patients are more susceptible to this illness. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. Um, I mean, obviously we wanna be very careful in general things that make sense. Don't always pan out in medicine and science. Can you tell me a little bit more about. The science specifically and what literature exists for kinda ozones antiviral properties. So, so, so there are, There are probably 10,000 articles on ozone in the Russian and European literature.

So ozone is a, a modality that has been used for, for over, over a hundred years. Nikolai Tesla, uh, patented the first ozone generator over a hundred years ago. Um, for, for medical use and, uh, ozone has been shown to be, to have antiviral effects, uh, in the test tube. And, um, and, and there are, um, there, there is, I think, uh, there's some literature, uh, that ozone, uh, may have an ability to modulate cytokine storms.

And so then that's interesting. And then, uh, there's, there's some literature that, um, and, and this is minimal, but that, that ozone may, uh, Have an effect. Ozone facilitates oxidation reduction reactions. And so there's some thought that ozone can oxidize sulf hydro groups that viruses used to attach to cells.

And so the, the thought is that ozone may have a, a, a killing effect on viruses, but it also may have an effect that makes viruses, uh, less, uh, able to infect us. Do you know if anyone is doing any trials, uh, Matt, either in the hospital and patients infected or, or any other manner on ozone with this virus?

No, I don't. I don't think so. And it, you know, it's interesting because I developed a whole protocol and was sort of gearing up to take care of patients, and then as the storm came to, to hit us, what happened is, Basically, we were not able to get any personal protective equipment for our office. And so then I was faced with the situation of having something that I think has a very good rationale for use.

Um, but, uh, fearing that my staff would get infected. And so we ended up shutting our clinic down. So we haven't been seeing patients and, uh, we're sort of waiting on the sidelines. And the reason, uh, for that is, is that if we started seeing patients who. We're coming in for prophylaxis, my suspicion, and, and we're in the Bay Area, so we're at one of the epicenters in North America, uh, for, for this problem.

And my suspicion is, is that, uh, we would quickly end up treating someone who is positive and then at that point who, or who turned positive after leaving. And then at that point we would be faced with. All having to self quarantine. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. So before you were shut down, um, how were you using ozone?

So, so there's uh, several, several strategies and interestingly, you can get an ozone generator. And then, uh, you can get set up and do treatments at home to yourself. Um, so, uh, so the, the first thing that can happen is, is, uh, when, when oxygen interacts with electricity, uh, It can form reactive oxygen species.

And so O two can get converted into O three. The O three then can facilitate oxygen oxidation, reduction reactions, and then re convert back to, uh, O two, uh, by donating an electron. And so the, uh, oxygen is passed over an electrical charge and then generates ozone. That ozone. The, the first and most simplest thing that can be done is that that ozone can be bubbled through distilled or reverse osmosis water, and then we can drink that water.

And so that's called ozonated water. Now, once that water goes into your intestines, it can get absorbed and some of that'll get absorbed into your bloodstream. And so that's one way to get ozone into your body that's very safe. Another thing that can be done is, uh, you can make ozone and that ozone goes into a bag, and then a, a catheter can be put into the rectum, and then that bag can be squeezed and that can allow.

Ozone gas to go into the colon. And then once that happens, that that ozone gas starts to get absorbed across the, the wall of the colon and then into the bloodstream. And so now once again, we have ozone gas. Uh, and that ozone. And once it gets into the bloodstream, it almost immediately, uh, binds onto lipids and forms lipid peroxides.

And then those lipid peroxides are trying to facilitate these oxidation reduction reactions. One thing that they can do is start to oxidize the surface of a virus. Another thing, uh, that that can happen is that they can be absorbed into cells and then they can facilitate those same reactions. And so one of the side effects is that it tends to increase your n a D level, which tends to be good, um, for, for a variety of reasons.

And so then those are, those are two very simple strategies that can be used at at home. You can even insufflate, uh, ozone into the nose, which is one of the places where we know this virus, uh, can attack us. Now, the other thing is, is that there are techniques to ozonate the blood. And so, uh, one technique is called major auto hemotherapy, where an IV is placed and a little bit of blood goes out into a bag just by gravity, drainage.

And then ozone gas is injected and mixed with that blood, and then the blood goes back in. So no gas is injected in just the, the blood comes in, and when the blood comes in, It, um, uh, it's been ozonated, so the ozone has already perfectly mixed with the blood to have its effect. So that's strategy one.

Strategy two, there are some machines that actually do this process for you. If they do it once, you call it a one pass. If they do it 10 times, they call it a 10 pass. And so that in broad terms is called high dose ozone therapy. And so in, in almost everything, Matt, there's a, a group of people who believe in low dose of people who believe in high dose, and another group of people that are kind of the Goldilocks people who like something in between.

And then the final common way that, uh, you can use ozone is, is that you can. There's a, a technique that's a, a very advanced technique called ozone dialysis, where, uh, blood is pumped through a dialysis filter and then ozone mixes with the blood. And, um, you get the benefit of the blood, uh, filtering through the dialysis filter, which has a whole bunch of anti-inflammatory and detoxing processes, and the ozone mixes with the blood.

Uh, in this case, once again, no actual gas gets into the bloodstream, but there is an ozone ozonating effect. And, uh, we've been using, uh, these strategies for patients with complex infections in patients with viral infections, actually for years and years and years. And so, um, I'm, I'm. I have not treated anyone with Covid, and so I, and I'm, so, I can't say that it's going to work for Covid, but I can say that I'm optimistic that it may be helpful and, and at, at this point, Uh, to really, uh, effectively study this, I think what we would need to do is we'd need to do a trial, uh, with some of these techniques in a hospital where we could safely treat patients.

Uh, and my suspicion is that if we use some of these strategies, uh, we would have an immunomodulating effect. And if we did that in between the time when people presented with. With upper respiratory things and got a pneumonia. I think it, it, it's my hypothesis that it would lower the risk of. Trends of, of continuing on to pneumonia.

And, uh, but I think that, uh, it, you really need to do ozone in concert with some other therapies. And so the other therapies that we're looking at as intravenous vitamin C, uh, intravenous lysine, uh, lysine to block the viral replication, vitamin C has a, a broad set of effects. And then, Combining that with, uh, some of the, the medications that have been looked at, and I, and, and my philosophy of, of what the optimal treatment for this would be is going to be a combination of.

Of, um, of a total integrative package that includes oral supplements, IVs, and um, and medications. And then, and then with that in mind, I think that optimally if we can do oral strategies plus some of the medications strategies, For people who were quarantined at home that may be effective at, uh, at minimizing the tr the, the probability of going on to pneumonia.

But, but then we would have reserve some of our bigger guns for, for in-hospital therapy, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, that, that makes sense. Um, but tell me, you're basing this optimism on it, there are studies of ozone that showing it's antiviral. Capabilities and the decrease in cytokine storm. Is that correct?

Yes, that's true. Perfect. And, and what we'll do is we can, we can post those, uh, Matt can send me those. I'll look those up and we can post those well for people to look at. Um, and, and I think right now we're talking a lot to physicians as well and people who could potentially do these studies because, um, I worry a little bit about, um, people at home hearing things.

For example, when the, when the president talks about, uh, chloroquine and then we had. We've already had, uh, a death from an overdose in the US and some other issues abroad. So Matt, talk to me about the risks associated. I mean, you talked about insufflation, um, going up the rectum. You also talked about the nasal, and I know we don't inhale, we can't inhale ozone.

That's very dangerous. What are the risks associated with this that people need to be careful about both physicians and people who are just gonna try to buy one of these machines? Right. So, so, um, Like, like every, everything in medicine, it's all gonna come down to the dose. And so then each, each person's physiology is different in terms of what they can tolerate.

And so the more, uh, uh, fragile someone is, the more, uh, multiple co comorbidities they are, they may require a lower dose, uh, of, of, of any, of any drug, for example. Um, and so then, uh, in terms of the, the dosing in for rectal ozone, people can get some cramping. Uh, it can be uncomfortable. Uh, generally it's very well tolerated and extremely safe.

The probability of any major consequence from, from rectal I think is very, very low. I've never. I've, I've seen thousands of patients do it, and I've seen, uh, some people have cramp. I would say I've seen 5% of patients have cramping for one to four hours. Uh, but other than cramping, I've never seen any, any and cramping and un uncomfortable un uncomfortability.

I've never seen any major consequences from, uh, from rectal ozone in terms of the ozone water. Uh, sometimes people can have a, a die off reaction. So for example, if they had a biofilm or bacteria living in their small intestine, or let's say they had dysbiosis in the, in the colon. There can be a little bit of a DIA reaction, and if their detox pathways and, and systems in their body are very, um, fragile or at their limit and overwhelmed, then I think that, um, uh, sometimes you can have a little bit of, uh, in, in, in functional medicine, sometimes people call this a herstein reaction.

Uh, the, uh, The, the long-term, severe, severe reactions, uh, to either rectal or ozone water. Uh, I've never seen, I've never seen any, so I think it's tends to be very safe, uh, because ozone has, Antiviral antibacterial, anti parasite, anti-fungal effects. If you do a a, a, a recal low zone, it can affect the microbiome.

And so then I think one very important thing to do is to take, um, probiotics when, when you're, when you're doing, uh, these, these therapies, the, um, the, the human body in general has an amazing buffering capacity. So the, the blood is so well buffered that, uh, we keep the pH fairly constant. So you're probably used to seeing this when you'd get a blood gas in the emergency room.

And so, uh, and because of that buffering capacity, We, the blood is very easily can tolerate the oxidation reduction reactions that ozone facilitates, and it doesn't o o overwhelm our body. Same thing in the colon when that gas goes into the colon and gets absorbed across the colonic mucosa. Uh, because the buffering capacity is quite good.

There's minimal side effects. And same thing with drinking the oral ozone, uh, ozone water. Uh, however the lungs, uh, are, are so exquisitely designed that, that the alveoli, which is where, uh, oxygen is, is uh, trans and carbon dioxide goes back and forth between our, uh, our, our blood pulmonary blood vessels.

Is quite sensitive to oxidation, and so as a result of that, Uh, ozone, if it's inhaled into the lungs, can be toxic, which is why we've always known not to breathe in ozone. And so the, and so, uh, if I was going to recommend people doing ozone therapies, I would recommend the, the rectal ozone and the ozone water.

And I think the ozone water is the safest and most straightforward and lowest probability of a, of a problem. Now, in the. In the case of the, uh, nasal ozone, what what someone can do is they can take a very big breath in and then hold their breath, and then, then what they can do is they can inject a very small amount of ozone.

Gas, like four ccs in each nostril at a very small concentration, because remember I talked about the concentration, and so the concentration would be like five micrograms per milliliter, so it's very low, and then that can have its effect on the nasal mucosa, and then someone breathes out through their nose, plugs their nose, and breathes in through their mouth.

So the amount of ozone that goes down to the lungs is very, very small. And so that is a strategy that some clinicians will use to, to for nasal ozone. Uh, for, for the rectal ozone, people will use sort of five to. Uh, even more times as much ozone. So people will do somewhere between 20 and 40, uh gamma or 20 to 40 micrograms per milliliter, uh, when, when they do rectal insufflation.

So the ozonated water. Um, talk to me about the stability, how long. That's good. And then I think you've also talked about ozonating oils as well as maybe a more stable form that. W tell me more about that. Yeah, so the, the ozonated water is, uh, is probably only stable for. For 20 minutes or so, if you let it sit, it will continually break down.

And so then, uh, when, when we make ozonated water, we make the ozonated water right there, and then when it's done, we drink it. And so there are dev devices that, uh, you run oxygen through the machine and then there's a tube. That goes through a bubbler and it bubbles the water. And so then that is meant to be made and then drank drunk right away.

Now you can do the same process where you make the ozone and then bubble the ozone gas through olive oil. Now, interestingly, that seems to take out the toxicity and, and there are some strategies where people will actually inhale, uh, just breathe through a nasal cannula. That, that, uh, gas mixture. And, uh, we've, we've had a lot of patients with, uh, both with mold issues and with uh, uh, a bacteria called marons, um, and, and, and sinus, uh, problems who, who've had benefit from that strategy.

But when you bubble the ozone through the olive oil, it tends to be much more stable. And, and so then there are companies that will take that. That, um, that, uh, ozonated olive oil or linseed oil, and then they will put that at a gel cap, just like you would put, um, like a fish oil in a gel cap. So I am someone who doesn't know a lot about this, and that's why I was excited to talk to you about it.

If a physician was really interested and wanted to go down, Rabbit hole and really explore the science behind this to potentially start offering what is the best source? Where could they learn about this and evaluate the literature for themselves. So the, the, the father of ozone therapy in America is a doctor named Frank Shellenberger and he has a, uh, ozone therapy certification and he teaches that, uh, three times a year.

And he actually developed an online curriculum for people in the third world who weren't able to to come here. And so I know that he's gonna be, uh, releasing, uh, that to the general population, uh, very soon because it's almost like America's turning itself into a third world, uh, kind of overnight. Um, and then I actually teach some of the advanced classes for him, so I.

Uh, I teach people how to do, uh, ultrasound guided injections, and I teach people, uh, how to do the ozone dialysis, and we also teach people how to do the high dose ozone therapy. And so the, the pathway to learn about this is to, uh, and, and Dr. Schoenberger also has a, uh, an organization, uh, that's the American Academy of Ozone Therapy.

And so he has a, a, a big academic meeting every year. And so there's gonna be one held, uh, next year. And so that's gonna be a great one to, to look out for. And then there's, uh, and so what I would, but I would try to take his online certification. And start to, to dig into it. And then we have doctors to our office every week.

And so they come and we teach people how to do these strategies and, um, and so I'd be, I'd be delighted to, to talk to anybody, any of your listeners who wanna learn how to do this. That's great. I think people are gonna have a lot of questions and I know you, um, are gonna have a lot of answers. So what I'd like to do is if anyone has any questions they can ask us at Wild Health md, uh, both Facebook or Instagram.

And, um, later, if you have more time, I would love to have you back to answer more questions. How, how could people reach out to you specifically or learn more about what you're doing? Oh, so we're, we're at Bio Reset Medical. You can, you can just go to bio reset.com and then, uh, my podcast is biore reset podcast.com.

And so we're, we're podcasting almost every day and, uh, talking to people and, you know, this is a, a rapidly evolving and changing situation and so, uh, we're looking forward to. Uh, to partnering with people and, and sharing the experiences that we're hearing that, that people have. And I think that the, the, this, there's obviously no solution has been proven.

I think there's some encouraging, uh, Uh, work being done with the hydroxychloroquine, and I think, you know, it's, it's been interesting what, looking at the combination of that with the azithromycin and I think what, what is, what's my, my guess is if I had to look into the future, Is that a combination of, uh, supplement strategies that optimize our immune system and our health plus, uh, some medications, uh, given at the right time, uh, to the right patient, uh, based on an appropriate presentation, uh, and, and is gonna be the, the best strategy based on the, the quarantine.

Issues that we're facing. But I think, I believe that that, uh, some of the intravenous strategies like intravenous vitamin C, intravenous lysine, intravenous glutathione, plus possibly the ozone strategy. Uh, will, may, will, will have some benefit. I believe that it's gonna have some benefit, but I, I think what we need to do is we need to, we need to do that in an institutional setting where we, we study it.

Um, there's been some studies that are showing that vitamin C can be beneficial intravenously. And I think we need to try to get, uh, some organizational buy-in and then start to, to study these things because they're relatively low cost. And if they, if they are able to, uh, uh, lower the rate of, uh, intubation, then that might be, that could be a really big thing.

Yeah, it's really interesting. Uh, uh, people want a silver bullet a lot of times, and, um, those quote unquote silver bullets are funded by industry and, and pharmaceutical companies. They take a long time to develop. Um, and it's hard a lot of times to get funding for the cheap things that no one's gonna make a lot of money off of, like by IV vitamin C or a lot of these other things you're talking about.

But it seems like we're in this interesting point where, Everyone is pulling together so hard that we may actually get that. I don't know. There's a big IV vitamin C trial going on in China right now, and although things are very scary, it's really, I'm just so hopeful just seeing how quickly science is progressing and how these trials are starting and coming out.

So I think people are working on it. If you're one of those people who can do a trial, um, uh, go as fast and hard as you can. We need the best and brightest in the world working on this problem right now. So, Dr. Cook, I considered you to be one of those people, so I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your knowledge with us.

Oh, thank you so much. Hey, what, what is your, what's your, uh, you know, I, I was digging into the, that trial, looking at the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. What's your, what's your interpretation or your take on that? Sure. So, and we just, um, we released a, a podcast on hydroxychloroquine with a, a PhD pharmacologist a couple days ago, but they didn't dig into that one study and that study, I mean, if you just looked at the, the numbers, the percentage and the difference and those were treated were not, are really, um, I think the word that Dr.

Oz used on Fox News today is jaw dropping. Um, but it's a tiny number of patients, and it's just, what I worry about honestly, is that. There's so much incentive to get something out there that, um, and I'm definitely not, not, uh, accusing this doctor of doing that or any physician, but there's so much incentive that we're going so quickly with things that there's so many trials going on and so many small trials that we could definitely get some really positive trials just by the sheer number that are out there.

So the percentage and the numbers were really exciting, but it was really small. It's gotta be repeated and people have to have, have to understand that's how science works and, um, that there are risks. When we publicize these things of people hoarding the medications of people taking the medications, when they have contraindications, they don't realize.

So very encouraging study, but it's gotta be repeated and I think it is being repeated right now. So that's gonna be great to see the results of a bigger trial. What was the death that you mentioned? Um, so there were a couple issues in Africa from people taking chloroquine, and I just talked this morning to our director of toxicology, a toxicologist who is plugged into this.

And he said he's already, he's already saw overnight, the first death from someone overdosing. I think it was. I didn't ask him exactly the reason. Um, In my mind, I may have just made this up, but, uh, it, it may have been, they may have had a contraindication or prolonged QT or something else like that. And cuz that's the mm-hmm.

Big risk is if, um, someone is taking other medications or prolonged QT or they have cardiac problems and they just hear a press release about hydroxychloroquine preventing this. Um, and then they go take it without talking to a physician. Um, just the sheer number of people that could be taking this now that it's out there.

There are gonna be some of them that it's contraindicated in. So I don't know if it was a clear contraindication or if it was someone with a mental illness that just took too much or, or what it was, but I already know that, um, I mean, he did say there's already been at least one overdose that he knows of.

Mm-hmm. Well, it's, it's, we're in a brave new world, but I look forward to, uh, staying in super close contact and I'd love to come back on and, uh, would I just look forward to, uh, all of us getting smarter and better and, uh, Uh, getting more, uh, more knowledge so that we can do a better job taking care of people.

Yep, for sure. I, I can't wait to, to talk to you again. We'll have some more questions and we'll dig in. I know you've got a lot of skill sets and a lot of knowledge, so, uh, we'll, we'll, uh, we may tackle a different one next time if you're up for it. Okay. That sounds great. Thanks Matt. Thanks buddy. Have a great day.

You too.