Part 1: Dr. Cook chats with Jackee Stang from Delic Radio

It is super irritating to our immune system where our immune system's like, oh my God, it's Covid-19. We can't have that one. And so then it goes into like this crazy exaggerated response.

You're listening to the Bio Reset Medical podcast with Dr. Matthew Cook. The following is a discussion with Jackie Stan from the Deli Radio podcast, Dr.

Matthew Cook. How are you?

I'm awesome. I'm awesome. Yeah. I mean, kind of a silly question in considering the Times, and by that I mean we're like pretty much on lockdown with this Corona virus called Covid 19.

I know. It's so crazy.

Europe up in San Jose. Um, wait, before we get into it, for those listening, this is the second show, uh, Dr. Cook, or as I call him, doc, um, has been on Delic Radio. The first show, uh, I will put in the show notes. This is show number two, and, uh, today we're gonna talk about probably Covid 19. Um, but we can talk about other things too. So Doc, my friend, you are, you are up north in near San Jose. Um, what's the state of affairs up there with this Covid business?

So, you know, it's been so interesting, Jackie, cause um, the, you know, I started, I've been talking to, I've basically been talking to doctors like 24 hours a day for like the last. Couple weeks just trying to get a sense of like what's happening and where it is. And, um, yesterday somebody said we're 10 days ahead of Italy or 10 days behind Italy.

Mm-hmm. And, and I think we're a little bit behind Seattle, but not a lot. And I think LA is just a little bit behind us. And so then I have been just, I basically took like every penny that I have of just stock filing stuff. We've got, you would believe my stuff. Like my house is like a, a mash unit, but, um, and so we've just been, I've just been, and I've just been like, I've done an ID every day for the last six days.

So it's, it is crazy cuz I feel probably better than I've ever felt in my life. Um, just which it feels wrong. Like this friend of mine called me right as I was getting ready to do this, and then he goes, um, he goes, how are you? And I go, I'm amazing. And he goes, if you just lied to me, could cheer me up at work.

But, but, but, but, but the other side of the coin is that this is, um, the most chaotic and stressful thing that has happened in our lives and, you know, in the last 50 or 60 years. And, um, it's gonna be a disaster. And so I'm just kind of trying to figure out how, how to prepare for it.

Wow. So when you say, okay, two things.

So I had a staff meeting yesterday to just help. Wrap our heads around all of this. And I brought up the point you just made that for a lot of us, this is wildly significant, if not the most significant cultural thing that's happened, and maybe 50 years to which he replied, well, perhaps that's to an American.

Right? So there are other cultures across the globe that have gone through pandemics. Uh, I don't know if you have any thoughts on, on why or how this is different. I mean, it feels different because the, to me, because, well, a, the media, but also it's affecting the globe at large, uh, as opposed to just one, um, locale region of the world.

And then, um, when you say it's going to be a disaster, what do you mean by that?

Oh, so it's, it's interesting. Yeah. I see. Cuz this one the, is the way that the, um, virus works is it's in respiratory droplets that can get onto your hands. It can, when, if you're just talking, standing next to somebody, they can, it can, you can get exposed to it and then it'll get into your nose and mouth and eyes and sinuses and it can start to replicate there.

And then what it can do is it can go down and it can start to affect the lining of the lungs. And then it can, it can have inflammation there. And then what can happen is your immune system can start to have a inflammatory response to, to this infection, your immune system trying to. And the normal scenario is, is that you would just do that.

It works. And, and younger people generally are a little bit better. And, and there is, they're a little bit better at just having their cells go in and kinda like a seal team fix, take out like the virus or the bacteria and then everything's fine. Cause cells are like good at killing things like white blood cells.

But sometimes when we get older, we've are, our cells are not working quite as good. And so then we rely on making antibodies and uh, and we use these things called cytokines to, to kill infections. And the, the thing that can happen is that can go crazy outta control. And it's my analogy I came up with the.

There's a bunch of shoplifters and we gotta get 'em. But instead of like setting in the police for 'em, they sent in like they called in a drone. And so then they took out the shoplifters, but, but they also took out the shopping center where the, where, where they're at. So it's like a drone strike in response to shoplifting.

And that's kinda like what's happening here. And so then that can cause massive scarring of the lung. And then, then that's, it is called a rdf. And when that that happens, then what can happen is, is someone can need to be put on a ventilator for like two weeks and they, and they're put on a ventilator, kinda like somebody in a coma.

And then they have to sedate them and then breathe with them with a, a ventilator for like a week or two. Now the problem is the way that it's being spread, we may have like, Somewhere between like 200, 250,000 people in the country that might need to be put on a ventilator, maybe more. Um, and we might only have a hundred thousand ventilators.

So then that would mean like half the people that need to go on a ventilator, they just say, we don't have a ventilator for you because we, you know, all the ventilators normally just are somebody's being, they're being used, they're like at 80% occupancy. And so we could have a scenario where we have, and that's what's happening in Italy right now, where they don't have enough ICU beds to take care of the people.

So people are dying. Which is, and, and I mean, that's like a heartbreaking, heartbreaking, is made like, like, uh, awful scenario.

It's not always the lungs. The vi viruses don't always attack the lungs. Right? Sometimes they attack different mucus membranes in the head. Uh, like why is it, is it the virus that's super strong and because it moves into the lungs and then it affects the lungs differently than the regular flu or the other viruses that we're more familiar with?

Um, I'm trying to wrap my head around like the specificity that it's really hurting people's lungs, or is it the rate at which it re the, the rate at which it, um, whatever doubles the cells or whatever.

Most viruses come and they're, it's kinda like irritating, but it's like not that irritating. So union system's like, oh, we just gotta go get that.

Like, there's, there's some people trying to break in, but like they're out the outer gate. Like, tell 'em they can't come in. Right. That's like, that would be like one level of like, kind of a mild virus. That, that was not that much of a gangster. And so then the immune system is kind of like paying attention to it and might even let it come in, but it's just not too strong.

And so it doesn't pack that big of a and so it, it, it can go and, and so those type of viruses, they can get into our lungs. They get into their, our gut. That's why sometimes you can get like diarrhea all the time. There's a whole bunch of common diarrheas that kids get all the time. Um, uh, but then this one for some reason has enough of a punch.

And then it also is super irritating to our immune system, where our immune system's like, oh my God, it's covid-19. We can't have that one. And so then it goes into like this crazy exaggerated response. And that exaggerated response is, is the thing that causes the lung injury is actually not the virus, but it's our response

to the virus.

Fascinating. So when you say crazy response, we're talking like, like the same like in multiple sclerosis situation where the, where it's working overtime and actually hurting itself.

It's so, it's a crazy response where the immune system starts sending messages that this is a problem and we've gotta deal with it.

And the messages, there's the immune system has kind of two ways to communicate and it's kind of like, because immune, the immune system is like the cop in our body. So one part of the immune system is the good cop, which is like anti-inflammatory and healing and good. And then one part of the immune system is like bad cop.

And so that's like, Hey guys, we gotta go, we gotta go kill this bacteria. It's really bad. Come on, let's go kill it. Um, and so then what? Did you ever see the movie the Other Guys with Royal Ferrell and Mark Walberg?

I ca like halfway on a plane because Matt was watching it.

Oh, there was a, there's a Larry scene where Royal Ferrell goes, Hey, I thought we were gonna play Bad cop, bad cop.

Th that's what this is. Like,

oh yeah, I saw that scene. That's like the scene I saw. Okay.

Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah, so, and so then what happens is the immune system is going, oh, it's going crazy. But instead of, normally it's a little bit bad cop, but then that cur the bad cop gets turned off by the good cop. And so there's a balanced response.

But when it goes bad cop, bad cop, then what happens is, is the immune system, um, uh, It becomes, it creates an overwhelming amount of inflammation. And that inflammation, um, when the immune system does that, it's called a cytokine storm. Hmm. And, and, and so then that storm and that storm it, at first, that storm is happening in the lungs, but then later on that storm starts to move all over to the body.

And so when it moves all over to the body, then it can cause low blood pressure and all that stuff. And then the other thing that's interesting is once all of that stuff happens, then this virus can, can actually start to attack people's kidneys in a heart. Um, and so it can do it, it's, it has some. It's, it's, it's, it's powerful.

It, it's dangerous.

So not to diminish the seriousness, the biological seriousness of this virus at all. Okay. But as a layperson and an non doctor, I ha I'm like, I'm forced to kind of think about it in this way so I can understand it. But, so I, I had a, a call earlier with a psychiatrist, um, and a couple calls over the weekend about sort of like, what is this mean philosophically, right?

What is this, what is this saying about our culture, um, outside of how it actually affects the body? But it's like, it sounds like the way you were describing the immune response is, is similar to even conversations you and I have had about the Amy brain or the flight or fight response. To trigger stimuli.

And, and in my case, because of childhood trauma, that's not resolved yet. I see like a banana as a lion. And so my, my, my nervous system responds to this, this, this stimuli in an aggressive way. And then I'm like, you know, and then that's huge. Stress response is not very good for my, for my anything. So I don't know if that's a good comparison or not, but that's kind of what I was thinking about when you were describing

it actually.

That's a good one. Cuz I, I was, that's like you took something that I said and made it your own. Um, so at, at any second, our brain is kind of, Paying attention and looking around. So it's kind of like somebody's listening to the podcast or like me just sitting here looking outside, and so I'm making a judgment and we're continually making a judgment.

Are we in relaxed and everything's fine and it's great? Or are we in fight or flight? And it's like, we gotta get outta here and fight or flight. The fight or flight control center is a place called the amygdala. And so I call it, I call it crazy, Amy, for short. And, and if you're, if everything, and normally we flip back and forth between rest and relax and fight or flight, super easy.

And so then little kids, like if, if they get super scared, they're like chaotically scared, but then they realize it's just like you. And they're like, oh, that was funny. And then it's like they totally go back to being normal. But if, if you or I got crazy, like scared worse of upper whole life, A lot of times we might still be stuck in fight or flight for the rest of the day, or maybe even more than that.

And so, and so, uh, all of yoga, meditation, life, everything is designed to kind of teach us how to calm down and reset ourselves now. So then back into a, a harmonious balance between, you could call it rest and relax. You could rest and relax versus fight or flight. You could call it, uh, yin, which is feminine or young, which is masculine.

So these different kind of ways of being. But you could, and I, I, you picked up on this and that's really good. You could say that what happens with, with this disease when it goes crazy outta control is, is it is just like the immune system is an ultimate fight or flight. And that leads to dysfunction.

And then once organ systems start to have dysfunction, then it can, that's a problem.

Yep. Do you think,

do you think that we can, we, the collective we can get to a place with our reset abilities? Maybe not now. Maybe there's a few people that can do this now in, in the world, but we can get to a place where we get infected with a strong virus and we can use certain, um, wellness techniques or reset mind reset techniques while we're sick to.

Like, talk to our immune system or adjust the immune system's response, um, in addition to, of course, the medical treatments that you're getting. But like, are we, I guess what I'm asking is when we come into contact with viruses like this or disease, um, are we just then subject to the external medical treatments or is there like, hope for, for us, the patient to have like a, a partnership with the external treatment and like, and help create better results?

You know, that's a, it's interesting to think about that, Jackie, because the, the, um, That's almost like all that I'm thinking about other than thinking about everything else is how to do that all the time. You know? Now the, the issue is, is if there was some issue that you had that was like a long-term thing, so like, let's say, let's say you had a little bit of anxiety, just like, oh, okay, so then you've got anxiety and then we're gonna do all kinds of other things to kind of calm down the fight or flight nervous system.

And the beautiful thing is, is we got like 6,000 years to kind work on that, right? So we got, we got a long time and everything's gonna be great and, and if we don't do it today, then we'll do it tomorrow. And, and if it was, if it was in terms of an infection, let's people have all kinds of infections. But certainly we know that the immune system works way better when you're in rest and relax.

And I think one way to think about it is just if you're in full sight or flight, the immune system's like, this is crazy. We don't even know if we're gonna get outta here. And so then it doesn't really go into fighting really well until it can calm down a little bit. I don't know if that's the best analogy, but it's almost a way to think about it.

The problem with the virus is that it's so accelerated that it's kind of like it's easy when your problems are two out 10 to meditate your way through it. And it's harder when it's like a 10 outta 10, but it's like if you know my friend Barb, you see how good she is generally like going through crazy stuff.

Mm-hmm. And, and, and I think all of us, the more tall and coherent that we get, as we kind of prepare to kind of face this, what will happen is, Our immune systems, we're getting our immune system kind of chilled out. That's what I've been doing for like the last week. I'm just getting myself super chilled and, and oriented and coherent so that when it comes, I'm gonna be totally ready for it and I'm gonna be like in the best possible state that I could possibly

be in.

So your recommendation as a doctor is to like preemptively work on your, uh, inner wellness, your stress levels, getting yourself to a happy homeostasis, which then allows your immune system to chill out, um, as sort of a preparation for this virus or any virus. Um, that, that's actually, I mean, yeah, that's useful, right?

It's just that no one ever talks about that.

I know it seems kinda crazy and it doesn't though.

I've been like, it seems super logical.

It's kinda interesting cause I had like 10 or 15 people and I wasn't even thinking like this to be honest, but 10 or 15 people over the last two weeks say, I bet you people are gonna be more interested in the stuff you talk about after this.

Oh yes. Um, a million percent. Not only that, but I think people, I hope that people will consider their everyday health in terms of what they eat, in terms of, um, you know, exercise, all these basic things that people talk about endlessly in health and wellness. Um, but we're still, at least America is still, you know, not necessarily in a practice of.

Of focusing on as a majority, I mean, um, so much of the Western medical system, and this is, you know, I grew up in it as, uh, my stepfather is a physician, my mother, a former rn. And, and it was just sort of like, you know, you live your daily life. Uh, you eat what you eat, mostly complex carbohydrates, total horseshit, um, sugar, and you just live your life.

And then when you get sick, you just trust the medical system to give you medicine. And that's what it is. That's what you do. That's your life. But almost zero emphasis on like, oh, no, well, the food you're eating actually is going to affect your experience when you get sick. Um, your stress levels, all of these things, if you care about those, if you pay attention to those, then the medicine might work.

Uh, may or may not, but might work better or you might have a better chance of healing faster, um, when you do get into these, um, scenarios.

Yeah, I know it's, it's interesting, the, the, if remember I said if your immune system is working, you can go back and forth and especially if the, the part like the SEAL team six that we have, like our killer cells and our immune cells are, they're super good at doing stuff.

And the thing that usually causes them to not work so well is because people have leaky gut and they've got food allergies and they've got like toxins. And so all of those things have happened and then all of those things have been happening for, you know, 20 or 30 years. And

your immune system's just like, man, I'm tired.

I'm tired.

Exactly. Exactly. And so that's fine. It's interesting. Uh, there's like all of these aphorisms that are, I love from, from books and stuff. And there was this expression that pneumonia is the old man's friend. Hmm. What is, what is, what is,

what does that mean? It's a

nice, it's a dark expression. It's super pneumonia.

It's like super dark. It's super co. Yeah. Yeah. But so the idea is like, but it's like maybe an old man, it was like may, like Hemingway or something, like, somebody like that. We gotta find it in the show notes. But, so the, somebody is in there, but you know, back in like the fifties, somebody was 70 or 80. That, now that seems like young to me.

Right? But, and so it was the old man and he was kinda sick and then he got pneumonia and then he died. Mm-hmm. And, and generally the reason for that was, is that he was going all along and then he got pneumonia and, and he was the victim of something called immune, uh, sort of immune senescence. The immune system was starting to just not work quite as well, and so then it just took them down and it, a pneumonia can, can take you down pretty quickly and that's why this current one is, can take and it can take people down at a much younger age.

It just happens to take down more people who are older that have other things going on. Right. But then, but then, you know, I was like, yeah, I loved how you were talking about like food and stuff like that. Like there's, there's nobody, there's, there's probably nobody in North America. That loves croissants more than me.

Like if you said, if you said that like you could like have a diet that was based on like croissants and french fries and ice cream, I would've been like in heaven. You know? But like, I just like, I just like made this realization that I like that stuff is not good. And so then I just said, I'm not gonna eat croissants anymore.

And then I was like, and after I did that, I go, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna quit ice cream and uh, french fries, but I will eat french fries like once a year, which I, and I do, I still do that once. That's fair. That's totally fair. Fair. Yeah.

And I love that. Yeah. And then it's, then it's amazing and, um, worthwhile experience because you've only done it once and all.

Yeah. And,

and honestly, I would, if I went to France with you and that I would probably, uh, and, and a bunch of people I would like go have croissant, but then, but then what, what, and I haven't had one years and years and years, but then what, what that means is this is like, like this is an opportunity for like all those people that are like all up in the world and everybody's at home.

Like, like, and so you can kind of make a decision and it's like your consciousness is aware of it. If you just say, you know what? I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna make this the healthiest year of my life, and I'm just gonna like, totally go for it. And then once you get like some momentum behind that idea, And then like you start, like next thing you know, you start like socializing that with your friends and, and then like then, and then as I, as I like to say, Jackie, then something amazing is gonna happen that you can't predict, but that will.

And so maybe, maybe it'll make you, you know, is there data that says that's gonna make you resistant to Covid? No. But, uh, does it make sense and would it help you feel better? And is it probably gonna help you be re resistant to things in the future? And is that journey gonna take you somewhere that's probably way better than ever anywhere you, you would've been otherwise?

Probably. Yeah.

Well, yeah. Listen, the only way to, uh, experience amazing things is to try And we've convinced ourselves sometimes, uh, without generalizing too much, but I think. You know, at least where I grew up, there's this notion like, oh, amazing things are just gonna happen. Or like, I should feel amazing just because I'm human.

Well, yeah, by you are, you're just by being human is miraculous and like the body that we're in is so super smart if we maintain it and treat it right and feed it right and all these things, but, um, but you're not going to feel amazing by eating french fries every day. It's just not, it's just like, it's just not gonna happen.

So we have to like stop pretending, um, that amazingness is just gonna fall out of the sky and start empowering ourselves to create it on our own with diet. And these things are like, It sounds so cliche almost now, but, and yet it's like the answer's been in, in front of us this whole time. Like we have the tools through diet, exercise, and then stuff like what you do, because unfortunately we're, we're missing so many of the nutrients and, um, the things that, uh, you would normally get from food, I don't know, hundred, hundreds of years ago, maybe thousands, I dunno.

Mm-hmm. Um, and now we have to get micronutrients, um, in IVs or, you know, in other ways. Um, but, uh, yeah, uh, I, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope that, um, despite the, the pain that this is putting our culture, our species through that, um, people will see the opportunity, like you said, to. To find

my, oh, I, I have a, yeah, I have a good one for you on this one.

Oh, yeah. I did this to you. I, I did this when I was talking to you and Matt the other day. Yeah. And I, I'm in into this idea cause, and it's like, I figure out generally my better ideas just by talking to you guys or people. Mm-hmm.

You know, it's just us. It's just by talking at me and Matt. That's

it Primarily.

I, I've been admitting that probably my best ideas do come talking to you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you. So the part of like my whole P T S D conversation is like in reframing, you know, how like something happened to you that was terrible. Like whatever it was like 25 years ago. And so then we have like the script of that story and you know how it starts out.

Like if it was obviously terrible and like this happened, So then we go through group, but then as we go, the story sort of changes because then all of a sudden you realize, well, because of that thing, it led me to point B. And then point B was quite helpful in my life. And then point B led me to point C, which was totally amazing.

And I'm kind of actually bizarrely grateful for point A because it did take me to point C, even though at the time I didn't like it. So then later on you start to get a little gratitude for the first thing that happened, even though was traumatic. The thing that I've been trying to do, and that's what I've been trying to do in this situation for the last week, most of the time, is be this point and then try to.

An amazing solution and then try to navigate to that solution while you're in the state of chaos. We can talk about this because I was strategizing what to do, but then it, it kept changing and so then I was trying to see into the future. It's kinda interesting, but

yeah. You mean in terms of how you are, how you are going to help because you're a doctor and you have access and resources.

Yeah, so that like, I was like, I was like, I had my plan, right? And so then I was like, I'm gonna do this, and so then I was like, I'm just gonna start. But then I talked to my letters and they were like, You just gotta go like, sit somewhere and watch everybody and not do anything. Cause it's like too dangerous.

Well, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna laugh because Yeah, that's ex, that sounds exactly like what a lawyer would say. Um, but I'm, I know, I, I typically not, don't like agreeing with lawyers, but in this particular case, because you are our friend, uh, I, I'm happy about that.

If somebody was made for this thing, it was like me because like, I'm anesthesiologist.

I used to work in ICUs. I used to take care of people in ICUs. I like know about sepsis. I know how to manage 'em. And then what are the things that have been tried, like stem cells? Um, exosomes are gonna be tried. Um, vitamin C I get vitamin C every single day in my id. Uh, antiviral stuff. Antiviral drugs.

You do the ozone, ozone. Ozone is like probably like, And so literally every, every possible thing. And so then I was like talking around all my nurses and they were like, definitely, like, you were crazy. So then I was like, okay. So I literally bought everything and I'm like, and I a bunch of stuff that I kinda like magical, like Corin and do the laine.

So I was like, okay, I'm gonna send everybody home and I'm just gonna go in and infect myself and just treat everybody. Oh my God. And then I was like, they, they shut down every business. So I was like, and, and, and like, they literally shut down all, all the businesses today. I was like, fuck. I was like, I had a plan.

I, like, I literally called every day like I'm doing this. And so then, uh, and, and so then I was, so then I sat there and I go, I need to come up with a new solution. So then, Move my whole clinic into my house. So I'm here. This is like ground zero. Like I'm sitting here, just kind of like waiting for the storm

to come.

We're call, we're talking to Doc right now, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, from his house, uh, ground zero, uh, from a phone. We're going to check in with him several times during this quarantine phase. And uh, and uh, we're going to do it from Skype computer next time. But you know, you gotta eat, listen, publish or perish.

You gotta just fucking, like you said, find solutions. You gotta pivot. And, uh, okay, we're talking about ozone. So I know ozone for as this sort of like alternative treatment for years, right? Um, but it seems to just now be kind of getting some light and coming out of the shadows as like, A legitimate, but I mean, it's always been legitimate, but a really extremely useful treatment for

viruses.

Yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's interesting, so when you, you've, you've, if you've ever been in a late storm, you've smelled it because when el, when you mix electricity and oxygen together, Then, uh, it can form a number of different species where instead of just having two oxygen molecules come together, which is oh two, you can have three of 'em come together, which is oh three.

But then when the three of them come together, it, it can, they all start the breakdown and that creates an oxidation reaction. And, and, and that oxidation reaction can have a whole bunch of beneficial effects on biological

systems. So, okay, here's another lay question. In the world, in the world where oxidizing food, for example, is bad, um, yeah.

How then is oxygen good inside the body for, you know, treating inflammation?

So what happens is that the human body. Has a, is constantly doing oxidation reduction reactions. There's a whole bunch of parts of biochemistry that are like, uh, an assembly line, but at a certain point you need to do something, uh, to move it to the next step in the assembly line.

And a lot of times that thing that you have to do is an oxidation reduction reaction. And so then that can facilitate movement. And so we do that when we burn, when we burn energy in the body. The thing that does that for us is n a d. So N a D facilitates a whole bunch of oxidation reduction reactions in the body.

And so then ozone, uh, uh, does this, has this oxidation effect. And when ozone has an oxidation effect, um, in the body, for example, in the blood, one of the things that it can do is it can reduce. Um, it, it, it can oxidize sulf, pedrol groups on viruses. So viruses have like a little landing gear that they use to land on the cells, and then ozone can, uh, oxidize and if it oxidizes that it, it makes it so the landing gear doesn't work that well.

And so then the, the virus has a hard time getting into the cell. The other thing is ozone. Because it's oxidizing, it can have, it can actually just kill a virus. Hmm. And then, and, and so that oxidation effect, and then the other thing that ozone can do is, but because it has an oxidizing effect on our body, our body goes, oh, no, you didn't.

And then our body creates a crazy antioxidant response to the ozone. And so then by doing a little bit of something bad, it can be good. Now by comparison, Now, now. But that means it's crazy important that you give the right dose. Cause a little bit of it could be good, but too much of it could be bad.

It's like, like

psychedelics. Kinda like psychedelics. Yeah. So for example, like in the blood, the blood is, there's is has a huge buffering capacity. So you can put a little bit of ozone in there. The blood's like, okay, that's fine, I'm gonna buffer you out. Uh, but then the other thing that happens is if there's viruses floating around in the blood, they can't deal with that.

They don't