Psychedelic Living Podcast with Meet Delic & Barbara

 But it was only fantasy. The wall was too high. As you can see, no matter how he tried and the into his brain and the into his brain, we have been slave too long to ideology transmitted hierarchically and based on a tremendously alienating instrumentality. We need to empower experience. Delic Radio. Hello up there. We are coming to you live from Delic Radio. On today's show, we have Barbara Brenneman, also known as my friend Barbara. Uh, Barbara's a powerhouse corporate executive, a master of yoga and medical Qigong, and a poster girl for organ transplants.

She's had two. She's also an important female mentor of mine. What I love about Barb is she has a very keen way of staying grounded in the face of extreme stress. She's also a straight A student. Let me tell you of offering kick ass answers to tough questions. It really blows my mind. She is so wise, we affectionately refer to her as baby Yoda.

So we talk about psychedelics and staying grounded today. Thanks for listening to DEIC Radio and for telling a friend. This episode is brought to you by. Reality sandwich.com hosting 5,000 plus pieces of psychedelic content just for you. Knowledge is power. Have a bite.

We're cooking with gas, we're making cookies for breakfast is

and then we're gonna have hamburgers. Yeah. What is it this concept of you can't have breakfast for dinner? I know, I'm, I don't subscribe to that and it's come up because I have had pancakes in granola for dinner all times. Matt staying is like, oh, breakfast for dinner. And I'm like, no, I'm just eating dinner.

I'm just eating food. Yeah, no, I know. It's, it was always so like to go to like International House of Pancakes when you were a kid and get dinner was always so cool. We get this iest thing possible. Yes. Give me my drugs, gimme my drugs. Well, funny enough, this is a podcast about drugs, or at least drug culture, psychedelics, whatever you wanna call them.

Um, we, I know that you are aware of Carl Hart's new book that just came out about the title is, um, uh, A Guide to Doing Drugs as Adults or something like that. And, um, he talks about himself having a habit of doing drugs, but not a, um, no, no, no. A hobby. Not a habit Making drugs. Yes. Right, right. But sugar is one of those drugs or substances that is so widely consumed, but not.

Often referred to as a drug and or talked, you know, it's not, there's not a lot of empathy out there about how addictive it is, and I, I have my own personal issues with, with sugar, but no, a hundred percent. I mean, it's very interesting and I think it's, it would be super helpful for people to understand a little better how that's all evolved.

If you look teleologically like over human history, you know, sugar was this prize thing. You just didn't find a honeycomb very often, and we weren't able to get into it. We're not bears, right? We can't just go like, find really sweet things and it's only a little bit of the year. All of a sudden, you know, you're taking a walk and you see their raspberries and they're finally red and you eat 'em, and then maybe you've, you know, you're sort of a, a, uh, more sedentary culture.

You dry them and you have 'em through the winter, but it's not like you can just. Go in the kitchen and be surrounded by sugar, go in the store and be surrounded by particularly sugar that's been engineered to be more addictive. And when you start to look into what the food industry with, um, you know, genetically modified foods and with, you know, um, the way that sugar was versus it was 50 years ago when it was just from beets or just from, um, corn.

Corn is actually, you know, the, the source of all this modified high fructose corn syrup that is really designed to create that response and that sort of unconscious desire for that, because we're wired to look for that energy, but it shouldn't be so available that it's everywhere. If you stop to get gas or wherever you stop there, you are surrounded by sugar.

It's like if you're in Las Vegas and you're surrounded by slot machines and you have a gambling addiction, of course you're gonna gamble. Right? And so I agree with you and I, I think it's, uh, uh, there's a sort of shamefulness associated with it too. You know, I've heard so many stories of people who you know, are like, yeah, I didn't realize.

That, you know, you were supposed to thaw off the Sara Lee pound cake before you got home. I just would eat it in the car because then no one would know I bought it. You know? So, um, you know, it, it is probably that nicotine are, you know, two of the most super addictive substances that we're around and that are sanctioned by the dominant paradigm of culture.

Mm oh. Versus all the other substances that are judged by whatever, religious or, you know, uh, other kinds of value systems that people want to put on these substances. Yeah. I love what you said, uh, about we're designed to look for that energy, and in typical barbed fashion, you found a way to, um, so wisely say something that's, it's like simple, but the way you said it is.

Really brings paints that picture of, of, well, well, we're just all human here. And, uh, it's not about, like you said, it's not about shame or being bad or not doing something well, or it's not even about willpower at some point, especially with sugar and, uh, well, carbs, opioids, nicotine, like you said, right.

Um, salt and fat. So

they're put together, you know, I mean, I used, you know, I think about the, when I became type one diabetic as a child, uh, you know, all of a sudden sugar was this forbidden thing. And I remember going through these different phases of, well, I'm a smart person. I know how to eat enough sugar, and then nobody will know.

And then I'll get to, because when I, before I was diagnosed, literally to stay conscious, I had to go in the kitchen surreptitiously and pour sugar down my throat. And I knew something was wrong with me, but I didn't want anyone to know, you know, you always hide that weakness as a child and then all of a sudden to be told, okay, you're done with sugar.

And I'm like, uh, and it took me a couple years of trial and error to figure out I can either have this short term, extremely strong rush and I didn't know a lot of other rushes then. Right. I didn't, there was no cannabis there, you know, hadn't experienced in with alcohol. I was a kid and uh, uh, you know, then I figured out, wow, if I really wanna.

Have very long on the planet and feel very good, I gotta stop eating this. So in some ways it was easier for me than other people because I kind of saw it as an ultimatum. But for most people it's like, oh, it's okay. You know, to, that's my favorite thing. It reminds me of my childhood. I'll have it. But then they're like, oh no, everybody says I should be keto.

There's just so much value and judgment out there around food. It creates an even bigger attraction to it. Um, and it takes us back to those super early times, um, when that was a reward, you know? Yeah. For being a good girl. Wow. So you were Bo it sounds you were born wise, Barb. I think, yeah. I, uh, we, we, um, were, uh, I hope it's obvious, good friends and, uh, uh, but this is your first time on Delic radio and so I wanna go through, You know, to me you are so wise and, and I value that so much.

Not just in general, but as, as a female too. It's because I think, um, well, I ascribe to this idea that, uh, women have a certain kind of wisdom and or can gain a certain kind of wisdom through life that is, uh, really the, the belly of, of the universe and, and can help other people, um, on their journeys and their paths.

But you have, uh, speaking of journeys, you have an interesting one. I mean, you've seen a lot of physical trauma and experienced, I'm sure, um, other types of trauma, emotional trauma and professional trauma growing up and, and being an an executive in Valley back in would, that was, that would. Was your time there in the nineties?

Yeah. Nineties and, and, and early s. Yeah. I actually exited, um, tech in 2009. That was my final, um, swan song when the universe said to me, here is a severance package. What do you wanna do with your life? And I was like, wow, what a gift. Even though this is one of the most stressful, traumatic things that can happen, which is that you get told that you're not, that your job is going away.

Yeah. Oh, wow. It was, you know, which was, and I miss, and I, I didn't really understand the, in the, uh, intensity of that and how far reaching that would be to be able to process that, to loo, to be, have your identity of, you know, whatever it was like at that point. You know, 20, almost 30 years of a corporate career and being in a place where it's like, oh, I was the big boss, right?

To, I'm like, nothing. I was a yoga teacher and a chick that did a lot of energy medicine stuff and, and you know, uh, just sort of going, wow, there's a lot of freedom in that. But that's also really, um, you know, emotionally challenging not to have that to fall back on of, of who your identity is. So that was probably one of the most valuable experiences of my life, having to have put a lot into a particular identity and then just be able to just take it off and walk away.

Um, and, uh, you know, kind of, and then sort of let whatever bubbles up, bubble up and what I was doing was a lot of teaching and so, Then I recognize, oh, that's who people think I am now. I'm cool with that too. It's just a different jacket. We all get to make that decision almost every day to be who decide who we wanna be in the world.

We just don't perceive that we perceive that we're in this box of how people look at us. Oh, so true. I was watching a YouTube video this morning from Joe De Joe Deena, who, um, I'll put it in the show notes, but I was, uh, like kind of a morning affirmation. Watch this in the morning. And it's, it's very simple.

But, but needed and describing the thought patterns that we wake up with really carry us throughout our day and how we think about ourselves. And I, I can relate to that so much because I very, very often wake up with, uh, thoughts of, oh shit, and, uh, what's the worst case scenario gonna be today? And so, and even as a, as a person who seeks to.

Constantly be better and to grow and to reach my, um, peak performance as much as possible. I, I get in this bubble that I don't even know that I'm in, especially during Covid, you don't have a lot of reflectors mm-hmm. To, to show you that you're in these bubbles. And, um, but yeah, I like the idea of, uh, of, of, of what you said, of, of being like thrown out of this experience that you would become accustomed to, that you were this one thing and then, and then life showed that you were able to be something else.

But, um, okay. But before that, uh, so you were diagnosed with type two diabetes as a, as a young girl Yeah. In Kentucky. You grew up in Kentucky? Yep. Grew up in Henderson, Kentucky. Right. On the, oh, Ohio River. Um, which was the dividing line between north and south. So I al so I always thought it was so interesting that, that there was still all this presence of separation and the division, and particularly as the stuff's happened with the insurrection and everything recently, um, you know, uh, how, how we, these arbitrary dividing lines.

But yes, I grew up in Kentucky, bucolic sort of, uh, rural, um, but the town was a county seat. You know, my dad was a lawyer, so it was a professional sort of situation and uh, I always kind of knew that I wasn't gonna stay there even though it was an amazing place to live, uh, as a kid, you know, lots of big elm trees and you know, swinging on ropes and country, sliding down the sled, you know, sliding down the biggest hill in town, which, you know, happened to be where we were.

So it was super fun. Uh, and you know, I'm really thankful for that, that environment because it gave me something to push against because I knew even as a kid that it was not, I. You always could have felt like I wasn't quite gonna fit in there. That wasn't gonna be my over all full life. Um, and, uh, left there at 17 and, uh, I still have lots of friends and, and my parents lived there until they passed.

But, uh, I knew that that was just gonna be the, the basis. And, you know, at that point from a health standpoint, there wasn't, you know, a lot of understanding of nutrition and how that affects, um, uh, an autoimmune disease like DI Type one diabetics, which turned, who turned out to be Celiac. So, you know, know at that point didn't know.

Don't eat, don't eat gluten, don't eat wheat. Um, and also, you know, there just wasn't good technology. Now there's way better technology for that, um, particular disease, but for some reason, uh, and and I often thought about the fact that if I'd been born before like 1910 when uh, best and Banting discovered, uh, insulin as the cause of, you know, this wasting disease called type one diabetes, that children would get, mostly young people would get that if I'd been born, you know, 70 years earlier, I wouldn't have lived.

And I thought, wow, that's, I must be your reason why I'm here cuz I have this, you know, ability to do these little shots that keep me alive. Wow. And, uh, you know, that was, and that was a lifetime thing that was gonna happen. But then 25 years later, as you know, uh, the technology changed. Just like technology always changes.

And I was able to get a pancreas transplant and I'm not diabetic anymore. And that was a miracle because I manifested that from the time I was like a kid. I would think about like, what if I could get a new pancreas and it wasn't possible, and then it became possible. So if I couldn't get a bigger message from the universe that you can manifest your own reality, that was a pretty big one.

Wow. And, uh, you know, even today it's not that common, but, um, what an incredible blessing. So speaking of how you start your day, it's easy for me to always remember, even though, you know, you think about all the possible things that could happen today, that it's a blessing to be in a body, and it's a blessing to be on the planet right now because there's so much possibility for innovation and change and healing.

Oh, so true. I love this concept of arbitrary boundaries or arbitrary lines because, you know, you said it, speaking from your experience growing up in, uh, you know, on the border of an of north and south values, uh, generally speaking. And I grew up in Texas, uh, very, very close to the border between Texas or the US and, uh, and Mexico.

Uh, and many people know that that's, it's not really a border, it's kind of a geographical border because there's a mountain range and, and there's a river. Uh, but you know, thinking about Trump and his rhetoric, talking about building a wall was always crazy to me because that's like, there's, well, first of all, nature kind of put a wall there already and.

When you experience Right, the Rio Grand, right. When you experience a line or a boundary firsthand, viscerally, it seems so ridiculous. Or, or, you know, there's so many examples in history like the Berlin Wall and, um, borders in general. I mean, the ocean's a pretty, that's pretty concrete and like, you know, obvious.

But, but then you think psychologically, these waking up with negative thoughts is this arbitrary boundary or border that we're creating for ourselves that doesn't actually need to be there. And a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And creating the perspective and the flexing the muscles over and over again to remind your, to remind yourself or to give you.

The tools that you need to be reem to, to be reminded that, oh shit, okay, I'm in a bubble again. I'm just gonna get outta this bubble now. You know, like, go to a new bubble. And I, and I think, so I would imagine that going through something like type one diabetes as a, as a young gal, and then getting a transplant, not one, but two.

Yeah. So, oh my. Um, such a blessing. Such a blessing. What, what was the second one? Kidney. So one of the, um, main, so, so diabetes in general, and of course that includes type two is like, causes something like 30% of the kidney failure that happens. Um, you know, then there's polycystic kidney disease, which is a hereditary condition.

Um, and then there's, uh, other factors, hypertension, et cetera. But yeah, um, the theory is, uh, if you, when your kidneys are failing and you're diabetic and your type one diabetic, the, the, the current, the thinking then was if you were gonna have to be on immunosuppressive. Drug regimen for the rest of your life in order to keep your new kidney.

Why not get two and co and solve the underlying cause of it? And this is where you start getting into this turtles all the way down idea because, so some unknown autoimmune disease caused my body to, to, uh, attack, um, the particular kind of cells called the islets of Langerhans in my pancreas that make insulin.

So I still have a functioning pancreas, it does everything else, digestive juices and everything, but doesn't do insulin. So, um, they, the thinking is that's the blood sugar control and the insulin issue is what caused the kidney disease. So you get both. So I got both the kidney and a pancreas and then, but still there's this underlying autoimmune disease that caused that failure in the first place.

And so, um, you know, part of the blessing of the gift is trying to. Understand that. And I think it's one of the things that kept me kind of interested in medicine to start understanding why do people have these mysterious things where their bodies attack themselves? Because autoimmune disease is an epidemic in our culture.

And clearly there's environmental things. Clearly there's emotional, spiritual, mental pieces of it, but there's also some fundamental biology behind it. And I think we're just starting to unravel that, whether it's, you know, the epidemic of, of, uh, hypothyroidism, right? That's an autoimmune disease that many, many people have, particularly women, um, that we're just starting to understand how to modulate that with not just drugs or even, you know, natural thyroid supplements, but lifestyle and diet particularly, and sleep and meditation and yoga, and all these things that reduce the physical, physiological stress on our body.

So I think when I think back on it, you know, Being in the medical field now in the regenerative, sort of forward looking frontier of medicine was always kind of in the cards for me because I've always been interested in what are, what's, what's below that and what's below that and what's below that. And fundamentally, what's below that is our, our biochemistry.

And I always rebelled against this kind of idea that anatomy is destiny. You know, I just felt that like Freudian pressure and I knew it was wrong, you know, that it was way more complicated than that. Um, and that, you know, we're nots not a sentence, uh, that you know, because you're, you know, the, because this is the way you are when you're 12.

This is the way you are gonna be when you're 52 mm. You actually can be way healthier later in your life. Because we now have access to much more information, things that we can change, um, you know, through lifestyle modifications, um, that are our choice versus, you know, something that's imposed on us because we're trying to look a certain way.

Oh. Which is a whole nother topic. That is a juicy one. Yeah. Well, this idea that, uh, this genetic conversation, I know growing up there was a lot of that going on where, oh, well this is, this is a set because of your genetics, which is such a lazy way of being because it's not real. Uh, it was just, it's just, uh, I mean, you can verify things.

Sure. Genetics is a, like, is a science and, and people are more, Genetically predisposed the things and diseases and, and conditions and shapes and hair color and that, like, that's definitely a thing. But I love this idea that it's not the, it's not your only option. And there are, thanks to technology, um, there are new ways and ancient ways of, of changing your experience.

And I, it's one of the many things I love about you and what, and what you guys are doing over at Biore Reset, which is you're pulling in a variety of approaches to helping people with autoimmune diseases. I know that you guys deal with a lot of autoimmune, uh, things at your office or conditions at your office, but just in general, like, you know, we're talking Qigong.

Uh, new technology, injectables, peptides, uh, ketamine, uh, nutrition supplements, um, you know, emotional health and, and in, and this emotional, um, point specifically is, is is challenging. I get stuck on it a lot because, um, well I grew up in a medical household, but it was all, so, it was all about what is the la what does the blood test say?

And here's a pill for that. And there was almost no talk about the emotional, spiritual side of things. And, and then I moved to California. Uh, and there's more talk about the emotional side of things and, and I always waiver in between like, okay, well what is the science and what is the spirituality and what's the emotional and where do they all meet up?

And can you have all of them at one time? Yes, you can. It's not all or nothing. And, uh, the more in my own personal health journey, I think the more and more, cuz I ca I've taken so many blood tests and so, and stool samples throughout the years and I, I'm constantly looking for something. I'm constantly looking for like a very serious underlying condition, which, like, I have, you know, I, there's infections that I've had and, uh, you know, it's biologically the gut is, you know, I'm just still trying to get it to a.

To an a plus plus situation. But, um, so much of my shit is spiritual. So much of my shit's emotional. Um, and I, it's an important, it's an important connection to make, whether you believe in the hippie dippy energy thing or not, or whether you're in Oklahoma somewhere and you're just like, you don't subscribe to that.

It's, it's important to pay attention to it because, because why not? Because medical Western medicine's probably not actually helping you. So here's an opportunity to look at the other energy sources of what's going on with you and your wellness. Well said. And I think that the, the interesting thing is I think.

You know, I remember in the seventies people talked about there was this book called the Dow of Physics, and it was looking at ancient, so the ancient Chinese philosophical system of, of Daoism and, and how they described the reality. And then looking at what modern physics was just starting to show us what's happening, you know, at a level that we weren't able to observe before.

We could only theorize because electron microscopes became available and all of a sudden the models of, of how the universe worked started shifting. And it very much looked a lot like this concept of this, um, circular repeating, um, philosophy and connection with nature and how we're all animals and, and beings on the planet, and how we interact and just how similar that all was, and recognizing that, oh, We, uh, there, there, there's a certain realism philosophy of this is, you know, the only thing that's real is this table and recognizing that, oh, actually this table is just what we can see in this reality.

And I think that's one of the reasons why you see so many more people being aware of that Now, even if they're a little suspicious of it, is because of psychedelics and because of different consciousness. You know, whether you get there through, you know, 25 years of meditation or you get there through, you know, taking l s D, there's actually starting to be way more of a, an awareness that, oh, this reality is actually just what I can see in this reality.

And there can be many multiple realities happening at this time because you can go to the movies and see it now, you know, into the multiverse. Mm. And it's super ex, I think, kind of exciting because now it's, there's a little bit more of a listening for those things and an understanding of those things.

Because, because the, you know, if you're 20 years old, you've been seeing that reality your whole life on the screen and in video games and in. You know, um, uh, seeing sacred geo, sacred geometry and, and those kinds of things. So it becomes, it's become much more part of the conversation. I think that's an encouraging development.

Yeah. In general that the media and the, and what we consume and share has become so much more open. Um, and even just the legalization of cannabis or the, the decriminalization of cannabis in the state where, uh, we live right now is, um, I think, you know, just shifted. Attitudes have shifted so much since I was a kid, for instance.

On, on just sort of how, what is consciousness and, and, um, you know, how important it is for the emotional things. Like how many, you know, hearing that the, that the fastest growing market of people can, going to dispensaries or getting deliveries from dispensaries is, you know, people in their. Seventies and sixties and eighties who are looking for, you know, relief from pain and relief from insomnia and these sort of modern diseases that, that have developed as a result of all this wonderful technology.

Uh, and you know, the, if, if you get one person off of Ambien and onto doing a gummy at night and they sleep better, wow. The world's a better place. Mm-hmm. And you multiply that by thousands or millions of people, um, that's a positive shift. It's super positive. Um, and I, well, I know my mom, I know my mom is, uh, she, so she has multiple sclerosis, which is an autoimmune disease.

Mm-hmm. And to our knowledge is the first person in our recent lineage to have that. Or any autoimmune disease generally, we're, we don't have many diseases in, in my bloodline. Uh, and guys are a hardy bunch, as, as she would say, you could see it's programmed into it. Um, we're tough stock. Um, exactly. But I, you know, and she would say, and she has said to me, you know, she's, she carries this idea that it, it that her MS was perhaps energetically brought on by emotional trauma of her own and, and the way that she did or didn't deal with it throughout her entire life.

And she attributes, um, uh, her a new way of thinking or, uh, adherence to positive thinking to keeping her MS symptoms at bay. And, uh, I love to see her stoned on cannabis specifically because, Throughout my life, like being constantly around people who smoke weed stoners and, and then people who do it just occasionally.

It's, it's more rare, I think to experience a person who, um, who could take a lot of it, can take in a lot of cannabis and not, um, and their personality doesn't change that much and, or it gets, I don't say better, but it gets, they seem happier or they seem more at a homeostasis, um, that feels good to them.

And my mom is one of 'em, and my little brother is another one who, uh, who, and it's, uh, so, but she's still, she's in Texas and still can't freaking get access to cannabis, uh, easily. Yeah. It's so annoying. Is that is a, I was talking to a very dear friend who is um, gonna be moving to Texas in the next couple months for soccer.

For her true love. Uh, someone else is moving to Texas. Yeah, moving to Texas. Everyone's doing, and, uh, and she's concerned about that because she really uses cannabis medicinally. Um, and instead of needing to use cannabis, needing to use sleeping pills, et cetera, and she's like, that's her biggest concern right now is how to manage that.

And I'm like, wow. You know, you don't even think about that. Or people come visit from other states and they're like, this is so civilized compared to where I live. Well, yes, it's, well, I dunno about parts of LA aren't, don't feel very civilized right now, but, well, yeah. Or maybe actually as Chris Ryan, uh, Dr.

Chris Ryan would say, uh, civilized to death actually. Right. Uh, referencing his, his most recent book, um, she'll, she'll, she'll be able to access in Texas. I promise it'll just, it just won't feel, it won't feel as open, which is super unfortunate. Right. Um, yeah, the trains left the station. We know that. And, you know, um, on the federal level, something may happen or may not happen, but, you know, at the, at the people organizing level, they will be availability.

So that's always, yeah. I remember growing up, I mean, uh, when I was growing up as a teenager, I think Kentucky was the fourth largest cannabis grower in the country. And, you know, just was kind of one of those things that happens cuz they, you know, I remember going out into corn fields and there'd be pot plants growing there, you know, um, because the corn would grow faster than the pot, so the helicopters couldn't see it, but there would still be enough light and, you know, well that makes sense.

Awesome. Well, yeah, and we used to grow tons of hemp and on the east coast and in the, in that area of the country. Right, exactly. Before it got out loud. Um, and a whole nother kinda crazy, weird categorization of hemp as a, um, dangerous drug. It's, it's so dangerous, Barb. You could lock your doors at night.

Exactly. I mean, you can make like baskets and clothing with it. You can like write laws on it or, you know, like a, the Declaration of Independence. I don't know. Um, yeah, paper, paper, paper. Um, okay, so I'm, I'm zeroing on this, this, this, uh, idea of energy. Uh, this idea of energy, which is like, uh, a silly thing to say cuz it's really, it's really a constant and the only you know one thing's for sure.

There's a bunch of energy going on around us, but when, when we say, When you say even the word energy or you speak like that in many parts of the US and I bet the west, other parts of the world, there's a stigma attached to it. Maybe not so much anymore, but when I was growing up like, oh, energy work and when, when, when, um, and I don't much like psychedelics and drugs.

There's this, you know, there's this stigma that's this false narrative attached to this thing that's so obviously scientific and real and in, in existence. Um, and you know, and so, okay, so you, I mean, I would imagine, you know, so you have type, you get diagnosed with type one diabetes very young, and that's.

Energetically a lot. And then you, because of that over time as a young adult, how old were you when you got your transplants? Uh, I was, uh, actually, uh, 39. Okay. Wow. Okay. Wow, wow. So you'd gone through a significant part of your life, adult life. And, um, and then you need a transplant at 39, and there's a lot of energetic presence that goes along with that.

And then you are, I guess, simultaneously working as an executive and a male dominated, uh, very analytical. World called tech, right? Yeah. You were working while getting right. And when did you, how old were you when you left tech? Um, uh, uh, let's see. That was like, so, um, like 50, right? So then you, I'm getting somewhere.

I promise. So then, yeah, so you come, you come, then you leave tech with this like vast life experience and wisdom that you were obviously born with. And then you go into yoga, right? You pivot into this, this, um, juxtaposition if you will, of learning yoga. And I think, and I've heard you, you and Doc tell amazing stories about working under.

Uh, a Russian guy. What is his name? Yeah, ADI Sheeran. He's an amazing, uh, yoga master that we were really blessed to spend, uh, a number of years doing sort of a deep dive. And he was, uh, one of these people that is very physically gifted and also has a huge amount of energy and, uh, you know, had been on a, had had a, you know, an interesting life of, of, you know, growing up in, in Siberia and then ending up through many different paths in, in India and studying with, with, um, Iyengar and studying with Punjabi, Joyce and all the people that kind of were the, the, uh, have informed how we understand yoga in the modern day.

Um, and so that was, you know, after having, I mean, I'd always been interested in, in energy and in yoga and in eastern things, even, you know, growing up in Kentucky where there was just black people and white people. I, you know, read the encyclopedia and was just fascinated by India and fascinated by China and knew that I kind of wanted to learn more about those things.

Uh, and that's why I, you know, when I went to college at 17, I decided to study Chinese language and literature because I figured that if you wanna understand something, uh, understanding it, the art and the philosophy, uh, through language would be, you know, a, a reasonable way to think about trying to have a different, a deeper understanding of that.

Because language is such a reflection of culture and of values. Um, and also I thought it would be intellectually challenging and it was, and it's, yeah, you're up for a challenge, that's for sure. So did. Did, um, did yoga help you process or move or relate to the trauma or energetic presence that you had experienced thus far?

Um, considering it was, I mean, I, I think about yoga as like an energy mover, right? It's like, oh, how do I get the shit outta my body? Okay. And then it's about breath and, and all that. So it like how did it help you? Absolutely. And in fact, I remember many times I've had, I have, you know, this amazing transplant medicine.

It's a very specialized form of medicine to be able to take an organ with its d n a and identity from one human being and put it in another human being who has completely different d n A and identity. And then just hook it up and say, You go. And miraculously, that's really what happens. Literally, they hook the kidney up and you immediately start making urine end, which is a miracle if you've had kidney failure.

Um, and it's a miracle period, right? And so, you know, but you don't really talk about that with your, with your amazing doctors that are on and, and all the care people that are on your team because their, their model is a very, you know, western model, but with a ton of, of identity behind that. But they would, you know, say, because I did really well compared necessarily to other people who had the preexisting conditions that I did and had that, you know, um, pretty big surgical procedure.

Uh, and they would say, we don't know what you're doing with all this yoga and everything, but whatever it is, you keep doing it, it seems to be working for you. Like when I left the hospital, I remember the first time, because the first year, you know, you're in and outta the hospital a lot and big surgical incisions and then, you know, getting your meds right and all these kinds of things and, and uh, you know, I remember them saying no standing on your head for a while.

And I was like, just watch me. You know? So, you know, I'm convinced that that doing yoga and Qigong and meditation and all the sort of energy things that I've done over the years, um, have helped on. On physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual level of going through this journey of being in a body and having these physical challenges.

And, you know, without those tools, I'm convinced that physically I wouldn't be doing so well. But also I just wouldn't be able to see the blessing of the challenges that come with this physical body. Right. And I think a lot of people in the last year with Covid and everything are kind of realizing like, oh, you know, it is, we're all gonna have physical challenges, but if we can get on the other side of them, um, there's all these blessings.

But it takes a ton. The, the emotional component of that, if you look at how the healthcare system deals with a pandemic like this, you know, people are aware that it's, it's really, you know, isolating for people to be stuck in hospital war and not be able to see their families, et cetera. And the emotional impact of that and seeing that on healthcare workers and on society in general.

I think a lot more people are thinking about that now. But yeah, as a, um, The, the other thing that was really valuable for me in kind of going through all these physical challenges and particularly transplant, which has, you know, is, is awesome. You know, when you think about getting to, I figure the, that I get the chance to process the karma of more than one person by being able to carry these organs and this DNA n forward into a whole, you know, to do whatever I'm supposed to be doing in my life and Chinese medicine and the model of, of how Chinese medicine looks at energy and looks at organ systems and how your body stays in that homeostasis and stays alive has been really valuable because they attach, um, you know, for instance, the kidney represents where you store fear.

It's your life force energy and when you're fearful it sort of drains you of your life force energy. And it's also where your clarity and mental you sort of ability to understand the world and also to see clearly. Is is associated with the kidney. And, and so fear blocks that and as I'm, and as I was, my kidneys were failing, being an end-stage renal disease, I look back on, was one of the most valuable things I've ever done because I could feel the emotional impact of it almost more than the physical impact.

Cuz the physical impact is you just feel very tired and you're just, and then it starts being, and because I was also diabetic, my blood sugar got more brittle and so it was harder for me to, I had to stop traveling for business because I would be, you know, something would happen and my blood sugar would drop and I would not be able to remember how to dial a phone in the hotel, you know, which is not very safe.

Um, so that, but as soon as I, and I also was having irrational fears and I didn't really know why, but I would think as I'm driving along the freeway that a car was just gonna come over into my lane. Like it just would have these anxiety things. And then as soon as I got my new kitty, poof, they were gone.

And, uh, and then as I, you know, look back on that, as I went deeper into studying Chinese medicine and Qigong, I, I was like, oh, that totally makes sense now because, um, when I didn't have, uh, you know, fun when my kidneys were at 10% function or whatever, really the fear could take over cuz that's a lower vibration and a kind of the default of being ill.

Whereas, you know, once you actually have that energetic, you know, it's the water element, you know? Right. So that's a fundamental life is 70% of your body is water, 72% and so is the planet. So just all of that energetic. Concepts, I could feel those alive in my body. And so that's like a validation cuz we go through our lives being like, this is all there is.

You know? And then, you know, it's not, that's why we invent religion and that's why we, you know, like to do psychedelics, right? Because we gives us that visibility into those things. But I had this, you know, visceral experience of this is true. Um, and it, and that's been really valuable because I think I can, one of the reasons why I'm still here is to be able to help other people see that.

Mm. And that's, you know, a super gift. Yeah. I remember the first time I felt physically felt, uh, A tree's energetic, uh, uh, presence I guess, or whatever energy field, which is something just like, what, what? I'm in California too long, man. Um, no, it was, uh, it was during an, an ANCA experience. Uh, and uh, and I just walked over to a tree and I wasn't touching it, but I was touching it and I, and, and just that little nugget of an experience made the whole, um, the whole journey, that time totally worth it.

Um, because, because you don't know until you know, and I like to know, I like to learn by experiencing and, uh, we can talk about there being an energetic presence around a tree, but until you feel it, and there are ways to measure, so. Uh, scientifically, but as a lazy scientist, you know, I'm, I'm not doing, I'm not doing that.

So, um, but aren't we happy that other people do that? That's awesome. Yes. Yay. Yes. I, I'm better at being a fan and a champion of those. Um, but, uh, and then another thing I wanted to, to, to bring up, because I think it's so important for people doing yoga or, um, practicing any kind of body work, you know, and watching you and we spend a lot of time together and watching you and how you're, you're physically, like, I think there's almost no fat on your body, but there's, I mean, there's enough to protect what needs to be protected, your organs and, and whatnot.

But, um, you know, and, and, and you have all of this experience, this breadth of experience in, um, in a yoga practice and moving your body and, um, And what I love is, you know, watching you, I, I'm, I would assume, I guess, that all of the yoga instructors I know are the people that have spent a lot of time and effort, um, becoming experts in something like that.

Would do yoga all the time, or would, would be moving, like I would, I would turn my head and oh, there would Barbie or my friend Stacy, or my friend Craig, they would be doing yoga. Um, and yet, I, I think the, the running. Similarity between you and other friends of mine who have this as an expertise is that it's so, so much a part of your daily like experience.

You, you, it, you don't just do it in the morning at 8:00 AM to 9:00 AM and then you don't think about it again until the next day at eight. It's like you'll, you stretch when you need to stretch or you move your body a certain way when you feel like doing it. And I think that's a very important lesson for people because especially those people who have not been or do not have a practice of movement, because it can be intimidating.

This idea that, oh, I have to do something for 60 minutes, or I have to, I'm not really doing it unless I'm doing it for, I don't know where 60 Minutes came up from, by the way. It's totally like a commercial thing. But um, having said that, I mean arbitrary. Yeah. Yeah. Arbitrary again, yes, arbitrary. Boundary.

Um, granted you spent years and years and hours and hours a day practicing, um, before, but, but what do you think about that? Like, you know, it's, um, it's not about the quantity, right? It's about, I think incorporating and doing it when you energetically feel like doing it. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the, the key is listening to your body.

Of course breath is one mechanism that gets you back in touch with your body cuz the breath represents the emotional going on and some, you know, so that's why when you're feeling anxious, if you, sometimes if you can just take a few breaths or walk outside, you know, and feel that you're not just floating in a little anxiety bubble, but you can actually ground that out.

I think that. Um, you know, those tools, the, the point of any of these practices is not, the, is not that you become a yogi. The point of yoga or any of, or meditation or any of these practices is that you become able to bring those experiences and that emotional peace and calm and con and presence into the rest of your life.

And so that's really the gift of the practice is that you start to learn. That just starts to become a natural way to be. And I think if you look at, you know, people before we had all of this wonderful technology, they moved more. We know that, right? We didn't sit as much. In fact, I was interested, I was reading an article the other day, and it, there's this, uh, the last couple years there was this sitting is the new smoking, you know, get up and move every 10 minutes.

So all these devices tell us to get up and move. And that's the way people used to be. And if you look at, you know, uh, A tribal society where, you know, every, you know, five or 10 minutes, somebody had to get up and go tend the fire or go, you know, take care of the kid that was running off over there. And they just naturally, but then people just sit around.

That's kind of what they do. Of course. Chairs, you know, kind screw that whole thing up, right? Because then we lose the ability to have our hips open and be comfortable on the ground. Um, people often say that, that the, you know, the British rule of India brought chairs and that was, you know, one of the reasons why they were able to dominate India for so long because Indian stopped sitting on the floor and now they're coming back to it.

Um, but that there was, that, it's not just that sitting is bad for you, sitting is actually a natural thing that we do, but then moving and moving kind of with awareness and of where our body is in space and, and being relaxed in that, um, is actually the key to that. It's not, you know, okay, I have to go get up and walk for five minutes so my watch won't scold me.

This is just naturally what you do. And, you know, we've imposed a lot of not moving with, with cars, right. You're stuck in the car. That's actually one of my things that I've really worked on eliminating is windshield time, because I think, and it's been, you know, easier with Covid, but I used to drive live in San Francisco and drive to the drive down to San Jose to work and then I'm like, this is just not a good use of my time and I don't feel very good and I'm not as productive because I'm forced to sit here in this position.

And, uh, you know, that is, is a, a super gift of just. The body, the mind will, um, respond to movement. You know, and most, we have these receptors all over our body, but they're, they're grouped in our joints, which is one of the reasons why, you know, if you just feel stiff or whatever, you just start to move your fingers, move your toes, move your wrist.

If you do these joint mobility things, which you see me doing all the time, um, it's actually giving your brain good information. This is, you know, where you are in space and the proprioceptive map in your brain. The Google map of where your body is in space gets updated every time you do those. And those are, that's good information.

And pain information is like from no is nociceptors, right? The sort of negative information that comes to the brain. The brain can only take in so much information at a time. It's a gig, a gait theory of pain. So if you feel a little, if you feel, you know, um, my knee kind of hurts sometimes if you get up and walk around, that just totally goes away cuz you've just flooded your brain with good information and then you recognize, wow, I have control of this.

I can sort of, if I just get up and move. In a, a conscious fashion, it feels really good. And that's just, you know, who I am is, it feels really good. You know, you and I both love to dance, you know, and we like to go for walks and we like to swim and move around. Um, because it's giving our brain good information instead of like, um, I feel bad, or instead of pain information.

And every time you do that, it creates that habit for your brain to feel better. Yep. Creating those new neuro pathways of, to feel good. Goodness. I, I feel like I, I'm sitting in this chair. Yeah. And I wanna, like, what? I know there's this where you're kinda like, you're at like a 45 degree angle, I guess.

They're, uh, they're like leaning. You're more like leaning on your knees. Yeah, it's like the chair you get a back rub at at the, at the mall back in the day. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Back in the day when you could go to the mall. Oh my God. I always, I always talked to Matt Ang about, um, well we have a Tesla.

And I think, okay, well when are we gonna fix the fucking sitting in the chair, um, of the car? Yeah. Because hey, you're right after, for me, after two hours, uh, it's, I go a little crazy and uh, and, and if we can get to a point where, um, these auto cars are regulated, required and everybody's using them, why do we need to sit, like we're in a chair, why can't we sit more like, you know?

Yeah. Um, like on a meditation bench and be able to change. Cuz the key is kind of be able to shift as, um, things come up. I mean, I'm always, I'm like a. Always really nice to all the flight attendants on airplanes, because I know I'm gonna get up more than most people. And I, and they're not looking, standing in the aisles, oh shit, shit, I forgot enough or something.

And people are like, eh. Um, but uh, you know, it's, it's so hard to sit on a five hour or 10 hour airplane ride, even though it's miraculous to be able to get to the other side of the country or the other side of the world. It's so strenuous to sit, you're over. I forgot, it's been so long. I've been on the plane.

I was totally that guy. Like front, I'm, I'm bending over just doing a quick, you know, bend over. I'm like, oh, who's they're looking at my butt? What are they thinking? What are you thinking about that? Yeah. And then I'll do, you know, pre pose or whatever. Right. And I think, um, I think, well, why aren't we all just, why isn't there more room, like dance space on an airplane?

But that obviously is not necessarily safe, but. Oh no. I mean I remember being on a cruise ship and, and the little gym thing being on like the 14th level where if the boat moves just a little bit then it really moves up here. Yeah. And thinking, well I'm gonna do a headstand anyway. And I'm like the only person that would dare to do that.

But it was super fun. It was like, wow, this is really challenging cuz I can feel every little movement of the boat and I've gotta really be sensitive to it so I don't hurt my neck. Um, so, you know, there the, uh, yeah, the whole, uh, sitting thing is, is, uh, I was amused to sort of see a few years ago some of the airlines were having, putting little things in the back pockets about, you know, yoga moves you can do while you're sitting in your seat.

And I'm like, well that's positive, right? Then do you mind if I do this? Like, okay, if I do this, I really need to stretch this way. Next thing need to work on the food. Yeah, we need to work on nutrition, we need to work on air quality, and we need to work on speed at which it takes to get, um, across. Exactly.

Exactly. But yeah, I think, you know, the, the, uh, um, the point I l I love the sort of, um, Buddhist mindfulness approach to meditation and how it informs kind of the minute by minute. And Han the great Vietnamese, um, uh, Buddhist priest, um, and teacher, you know, just says, take those moments, find those moments.

And he really, I learned a lot from reading his works. Um, About, you know, when you mean a cars keep coming back up. So you get in the car, you know, before you start driving, do a minute being present, show who you really are and being present. Your body, your driving experience will be totally different because instead of being super, like what's that guy doing over there?

And just being in that, that judgment kind of way of mind, you're observing, you head over to reality sandwich com slash and use code helps 20% off psych. Being mindful or just, you know, I'm washing the dishes, I'm not thinking about the fact that I'm gonna have a cup of tea afterwards. Being able to be present changes the experience so much.

And also kinda keeps you in your body. You're not projecting, you're not like projecting into the future or projecting into the past and worrying about what just happened. And that is like the gift of meditation is being able to be present and not be, you know, even in the midst of a lot of distractions.

Yeah. And that's the prac and that's the practice. So, I learned early on, I mean, I remember standing in the hall at, at Centric when I was just a product manager and just, you know, doing just a little of this and that and people would say, I remember hearing somebody say, I think Barbara's over there doing yoga.

He always seems to be in a good mood. You know, maybe there's something to that. Right? Maybe there's something to that and, and maybe there's something to this idea of feeling good. And, and that's, that's, that's it too, right? It's reframing wellness in a way that people can relate to quicker. Not just selling somebody an idea that if you do this, you'll lose 20 pounds.

Well, you could lose 20 pounds and still feel like shit. You'll probably actually feel better, a little bit better, but it, you know, you can still not feel great and lose weight. Um, so it's, it's like, How do we create that connection to people, uh, for people or teach them how to create it for themselves so that this idea of wellness and constantly moving the body, constantly moving your energy, um, that that feeling becomes so seductive and attractive that then you're always chasing it.

Like we're always that, you know, that feeling you get when you do a, a hip opener, just the right way. And, and I mean, hip openers almost always feel amazing to me, but, um, not, not in like a Yeah, they can feel orgasmic, not necessarily in like a sexual way, but, but yeah. Um, and, and, well, what does that take?

That takes, um, Mobility and the will to put yourself in that position often so that, a, you don't hurt yourself by just going into some hip opener without making your way there. But also, um, yeah, I, and tangent. But I think, I think, um, for me, what I'm working on is, is working to be seduced and attracted to the idea of I can, I can feel great eating these things.

And I wanna feel like that, I wanna feel like that as often as possible because of what I'm eating, because of diet, because of mobility, I mean already. Um, I've already, I already understand it. Uh, Physically, uh, in terms of movement, but diet for me is, is one that is something I'm constantly struggling with because I was raised eating packaged sugar and it was my drug and it was emotionally, I had attachments to it and all these things, and that is, it's like trying to get off opioids or cocaine or something.

Yeah. It's physiologically addictive as well. Right. Your body learns to get energy from sugar, whereas when you, as you start to get rid of sugar, your body learns to get energy from fat. Yeah. Um, and so, you know, healthy fats are a really good source of energy, but if you, but, uh, if, if you're, your body gets trained to do that, just like your, your emotional body gets trained to get energy from stress or it can start to get trained that it doesn't need that amount of adrenaline and that physiological stress to be able to.

Have that energy and you can have that with calm, that is a, you know, like a gift of, of the whole practice. And, you know, I, I think about like, sort of the yoga of life. I mean, the yoga of food is just evaluating how you feel after you eat something and then making a conscious decision whether you wanna feel that way or not feel that way, right?

So like, if you wake up in the morning with a food hangover, you had a really fun night, and you say, okay, I think that that was because I made a decision in the moment that I was going to eat, you know, whatever, I was going to eat some sugary dessert and I don't feel so great today. Then that informs what you eat, you know, the next day.

And that observation and just being able to be conscious of that as opposed to, well I feel kind of crappy, I'm just gonna do a bunch of coffee and, you know, maybe take some aspirin or whatever. And then I'm just gonna go about my day. And then before you know it, that pattern, you, you can either create a positive pattern out of a negative pattern out of it, but the hardest part of that is not having judgment.

On that cuz you know there's that voice that says, I knew I wasn't supposed to do that. I did it freaking again and now I feel crappy. You just now reinforce that pattern because all you did was just think about it, right? As opposed to, oh I don't feel so great. So I think that that's what I'm not gonna, I'm gonna, instead I'm gonna do the thing I did the night before when I woke up feeling great.

Yeah. And start to make those choices just then. They're small choices, you know, they're small choices. What you make when you're hungry. Do you, do you eat something crappy cuz that's all that's available? Or do you just decide, I don't think I'm gonna fast. That's a big one, right? Because, and fasting has become kind of popular now, which is great and thanks Dave and thanks Ben and all these people who have talked about fasting, because that's been a part of yoga and all these spiritual traditions.

I mean, every spiritual tradition has had a fasting piece of it because it's cleansing and it helps to clear your mind and it's making a conscious decision not to just feed that impulse. Right. And that, and the, the maturity to be able to do that and then get that positively reinforced physically and emotionally and mentally and spiritually, um, just creates this um, righteous circle.

You know, we call it the rising of righteous chi. Um, so that the energy can come up and you can be happy and, you know, feel great cuz that's the point, right? We're met here, we're supposed to be happy. Yeah, that's wrapping cord. We're supposed to feel great a lot of the time. Not all the time, but you can feel great a lot of the time.

And, and I think what I'm really interested in the ca is like what is, what is the catalyst for people? How do we, how do we in efficient mass in a, in a, in a, in a, in a large way, uh, or hitting lots of people at once? Um, Give people that the tool to know that they can create a catalyst themselves for change.

That there are these opportunities of change out here, these catalysts that they can go to themselves, or like, because some people, for example, because of the way they eat, and this is not, this is not judge a judgment. I used to eat this way. Um, because of the way they eat, for example, carbs or processed foods.

Um, they are living in a fog, uh, with this arbitrary borderline, this arbitrary guideline that because everyone around them is also living in that state. Mm-hmm. They, they don't know that they can get out. So they're, they, they want to maybe, and maybe some people don't want to, and whether that's you're right, but people want to feel good and so they, they not only.

Have are so far away from that good feeling they're, they've forgotten what it feels like to feel great physically and mentally. And then there's, there's almost no, there's like this haze and they can't get out of the haze. And so I'm like, what is the ca what are catalysts that we can create for people to remind them like, ding, ding, ding.

No, you can get out. And, and that's what I love about, you know, all of this is obviously relevant to psychedelics and psychedelic culture because to me they have always been a catalyst for change. They, they show you things that you do not see when you don't take them, or I don't see, I don't take them.

And, um, and they really can push you out of that haze for a second. Correct. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's a, a really common experience that people have with, with, um, consciousness work. And that can be. It's through psychedelics. That can be through meditation, you know, in the proper, um, context. I mean, as you were, as you were talking, I was thinking, you know, the, the way that I think I that, that I really love teaching, um, is that, is that that's an easy way because people can have that experience.

Um, and you know, for that, that's why people go to a yoga class cuz they have that feeling after class, right? So then, you know, and, and, and, uh, and those people are already predisposed because they're looking, they're looking at me or they're looking at you as, um, you know, having something that they want.

They're like, ah, what do you eat? Right? And I remember when I did, um, some, uh, self-development work, this thing called landmark education years ago, what I came up with as my, um, The exercise was, what do you want on your tombstone? You know, there's like the years, right? Whatever arbitrary years those are.

And then it could say, you know, Barbara Slaved at a corporate job for, you know, 59 years and got a gold watch, right? Sort of old timey corporate life. Or what I came up with was being a beacon of wellbeing. And the reason why that, and I think because I'd had so many health challenges to be able to be, that was first of all a big accomplishment for me.

But also I just recognized that's who I'm supposed to be. Like I'm a supposed to represent. And I sort of experience that daily on a pretty daily basis with patients. If Faye understand my story a little bit, they'll be like, oh, well if you were able to do that and look how happy and kinda healthy you seem, maybe I can do that too.

And so I think, you know, one of the most powerful things we do, As, as people is, um, you know, represent that and, and represent that we're not perfect and represent that it's a journey and it's choices you make every day. And then the question is, you know, again, for people that are sort of down in and not, not even aware that they can feel like that, how do you bring them into those initial things and, you know, maybe that's, you know, when we can all get together again.

You know, retreats are really powerful ways to do that. And, and, uh, you know, where you go away for a period of time and eat healthy food and, and, uh, you know, go outside a lot and do yoga and you know, go swimming and just for those, those kinds of things. That's why people like, Vacations. But, but in general, you know, if they're, if your pattern is to have bad eating and a lot of alcohol involved, then that's what you do on vacation to switch that and say, oh, the vacation is the place where you're gonna start building for being able to come back and feel better.

But yeah, it's a, I think we have so many tools now with social media and there, but there's a lot of that information coming and you see it like when you look at somebody like, like Dave Asprey, you know, he came out with a, you know, and is, and is doing an amazing job of, you know, educating people on, on how to have a healthier lifestyle.

And particularly around the bull, the diet of, you know, starting to, of cutting down on carbs and, and being more intelligent with the, with the foods that you do select. And a lot of, you know, there's a lot of media figures, you know, get able to do that. But then past that is that everybody's an individual and everybody needs to be accountable.

It's not like, I'm gonna tell you how to do this. And I think of one of the things that people are like, tell me what to do. And I'm like, I can't tell you what to do. This is what I do, but I have a very specific, you know, genetics and a very specific life experience. That's what makes this appropriate for me right now.

And so I can help you in the conversation to help you find the thing that might be the right solution for you. Yeah, let's try that. Right. But that, you know, requires, that actually requires a consciousness shift to I'm accountable for my health and for, and that's, I think that's one of the things I hear people learn from doing ayahuasca journeys or doing other kinds of psychedelics, is like they get the message that, that they have responsibility for that.

And you're not just avics, this is that victim versus, you know, being accountable and recognizing. The only place to stand in this conversation we call life is that you are the o you know, standing in your own accountability is the only place you have that power. Mm. That's the only place to stand, isn't it?

I mean, We, we certainly spend a lot of time chasing or running away from that. Um, mm-hmm. Myself included. I, I, and I don't really know why. I don't know why, um, self-responsibility isn't, I don't know why people run away from that so much. I mean, obviously because of fear, lack of, uh, self-worth and all these other things that people deal with as children.

Um, but, but yes, in, in, in psychedelics as well. It's very important, I believe, for people to come to psychedelic culture, psychedelic experiences with the sense of empowerment and self responsibility, uh, is what we promote as much as we can, uh, through Delic, because, because. I know and have seen people who come to it with this tell me what to do attitude or, or a facilitator or shaman.

I don't even know if we should say shaman anymore, an outdated word. Uh, but except for indigenous tribes and cultures where it, it's a thing. It's a real thing. Um, you know, tell me, tell me what the secret sauce is. Tell me. And people can, you know, that's how cults are created really, right? Is that the seeking, seeking people or people that want wellness or they want a promise of something, they get attached to a charismatic figure of the promise.

And, um, and then you, you know, I haven't looked a lot into it because from what my friends tell me, what you guys tell me, it's, uh, ridiculous. But even the qan on, um, conspiracy, this idea, this. This cult-like narrative. I read a piece on New York Times yesterday about it, and a brilliant piece about that was, um, that included some audio clippings of, um, of the reporters sources and, and whatnot.

Really exciting way to experience, uh, content other than just reading it. But, um, the, what I ca walked away with was, there are these people who want, they're seeking something. They're seeking wellness, they're seeking to, to feel better about their life in America, and they don't feel that way now. And they're, they have the drive to do so, and for whatever reason, they've attached themselves to this, this, this Q person and their, you know, c crazy ideas.

Uh, and, but, but really the, the craziness and then, then the, you know, non fact, Space Information aside, I really left the article feeling like, oh, these are just, these are humans who want connection. These are humans who want, who want wellness. And, um, and to feel like a part of a community. Yeah. And with a shared belief system.

And I think, you know, because, because we come from the, you know, sitting around the campfire and everybody sort of agrees that we're sitting around the campfire. There's wolves out there. This is a safe place to be. We got a drum, like there's this shared value system. And as we've gotten more and more industrialized, we've lost that.

And so, you know, we see that in whatever, whatever, however people are seeking community. And, and we're, we're not, technology can evolve faster than, than our. You know, than our bodies, for instance, like medical ethics is a good example of that. Like, you know, how do you decide about cloning and all these conversations where, you know, there's scientists already doing it and we haven't even figured out as a, as a species and as, and as societies, this is something that is gonna be it.

Because there's, it could be amazing and it could cause a huge amount of healing and could also be used for a lot of things that we probably don't wanna do as a society, which is, you know, make decisions based on a cultural norm. You know, are we gonna, you know, clone something or, or change somebody's d n a so that they have a particular color of eyes and the implication of that we don't even understand down the road.

So the technology is moving faster than our ability to adapt to it. And you know, in social media, I think. Um, you know, it's so powerful. But, but you know, if you, there's all these things up on YouTube, as you were saying, if people are looking for a common belief system in the community, even if it's not fact-based, it's sort of, it is really easy to get sucked into that.

Cuz in the old days it would just be like, oh, your neighbor told you something and you guys could kind of verify it together. Right. But if you're sitting, no matter where you're sitting, watching, you know, some video about how the earth is flat or whatever belief system you're watching, you know, I remember when I was young, I, I remember when Elvis died, I actually was driving through Memphis and on the, when his funeral was happening, which was quite a traffic jam and quite an experience.

Oh, I bet. But uh, you know, and then I remember a couple years later there was some special on TV and, and it was, you know, positing that Elvis was still alive. And, you know, I remember, I remember watching that and then thinking, You know that shadow right there, that might be Elvis. I mean cuz I kind of wanted him to be still be alive, right?

And so part of this is you see something, it's kind of convincing and it's kind of what you would like to see happen too because fits your value system, right? Cuz we're all looking for things that fit into our value system. And if you com combine things that fit together, so here's something I know and it's good, and then you combine it with something that you know maybe isn't true, but it gets so linked, then it becomes this, uh, becomes a belief system.

And that's one of the things that I think we work on with trauma, with psychedelics and particularly with the work that we do with ke ketamine. That's disassociative, is that all those things are smashed together and experience is smashed together with trauma and this other experience is smashed together.

You know, eating sugar is smashed together with my mother loves me, but in reality that's just an old piece of scar tissue over here. And if with in a disassociative state you could be like, oh, my mother loves me. Sugar. Maybe those two things aren't related to each other. Maybe I can be present to the fact that my mother really loves me without eating any sugar.

Wouldn't that be amazing? And you know, I think that's the value of these sort of altered co altered states is sometimes we're able to see those things that have gotten a little bit mushed together. Just like in the physical body, when you have scarring in your fascia and you start to feel a little pain and you know, if you have a way through myofascial release or through some kind of injections or through yoga, be able to release those things.

That's one of the reasons you feel good because you've just released some old connections, uh, in your body. And then you can more easily release those emotionally, the sort of self-limiting scars and belief systems from the past. Yeah. Oh, um, I want you come back and we'll spend a whole hour talking about ketamine.

Awesome. Yeah. Uh, you have a podcast. I'm so excited that you're doing a podcast. You have one coming, right? Yes, yes. Uh, our, our, uh, we're doing uh, uh, a series called Clarity Cafe. Um, and it's gonna be on the Bio Reset Podcast and then also over on, on Cler Cafe. And, and my co-host is, uh, a wonderful person named Callie.

Who is, uh, very gifted, uh, on mentally, emotionally, and spiritually as a teacher. Um, and also just a really entertaining and fun person. And, uh, so, uh, they're just sort of little 20 minute segments of like, stop by the cafe and, um, let's try to produce a little bit of clarity around a topic. Um, and so I'm actually looking forward to having you come on that as well.

So, um, yeah, it's, uh, I love that idea. It's like, I, I picture actually stopping by cafe and talking to my friends, Barb and Callie, Hey, can I get some clarity on this? A hundred percent. Like literally we text each other and we say, Hey, is it time for a stop at the Clarity Cafe? So that's what we just call whenever we talk now, we're just making, and I think of it as, uh, you know, uh, you know, that time white song come on up to the house, you know, it's just that like, come on up to the house and, you know, take a load off for a minute.

Mm. And, uh, you know, Maybe, you know, look at some of your triggers and, and what happened, you know, and how you might like, uh, think about those a little differently. But no pressure. It either sticks or it doesn't. If something's valuable, keep it. If it's not, let it go. And that's kind of the way that, you know, we wanna move through life, right?

Is something's valuable. We pick it up and just cuz we picked it up doesn't mean we have to carry it forever. We just could carry it for a little bit. You can put it down. You can put it down. You don't have to finish that book. Um, I don't, I, I'm so glad you're in my life, Barb. I don't know how many of the people in my life I'd have that would just, that would be able to say, well, Jackie, you can just put it down.

Oh shit. Okay. Oh shit. Oh, it's not attached to my hand. Great. We get in these like fog, these again, these arbitrary. I get stuck in them all the time in mind loops go down rabbit holes. And it's like, I always think of, uh, luckily I have Matt staying here to shake me out of it often, but, uh, that scene from airplane,

there's a woman freaking out and they cut a series of people come and I'm a slapper, you shaker slapper, which obviously is, you know, so taboo now. We don't wanna, we don't condone physical violence, but in the sake for the sake of comedy, it was Well, yeah. Very, very funny scene. But no, we just don't, I always feel like somebody just shake me, shake me and get me outta Exactly.

Yeah. And then you realize, oh wait, I can do that myself. Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah. You too listener. You can shake yourself out. You can, you can put it down, you can feel well most of the time. It is available to you. It just, it takes work, constant work. And, um, and, uh, the world is lucky to have you Barb, in it, uh, with all your wisdom and the things that you've learned coming into the world, but also living in the world.

And, uh, I, I can't wait to have you back. And so next time, we'll, we'll deep dive you have you, Biore Reset does a lot, uh, with a lot of things, a lot of technology. But, um, specifically with Ketamine as a part of your practice, we talked a little bit about it with, with Matt Cook and um, but uh, I really wanna get into it with you on that.

Yeah, it's, uh, one of my favorite topics. Uh, just uh, I can't wait to do that cuz I think, you know, uh, it's one of those things that. That you see it being really useful and also have experience at how that can feel. So it's uh, um, super great to talk about how to use techno. That's a technology, right? It's something we developed that as a human, as a species that we to help ourselves and, uh, to be able to use it responsibly and use it for healing is such a gift.

I'm a big fan. Yeah, me too.